Spain's consumer rights ministry blocks more than 65,000 Airbnb listings for holiday rentals

[Allan]

We've always stayed at Airbnb properties in Europe and always had a very good experience.

But I can understand the concerns about their impact on rents and availability for the locals.

I think more cities will probably follow Spain's lead on this. Holiday rentals have become big business with some owners renting multiple properties. They're going to now struggle with the financing as their revenue will substantially drop.

Spain's consumer rights ministry said on Monday it had ordered Airbnb to withdraw more than 65,000 listings for holiday rentals from its platform, saying they violated existing rules.

The Spanish government as well as city councils and regional authorities have launched a general crackdown on tourism rentals via sites such as Airbnb and Booking.com, which many Spaniards say are creating excess tourism, cramping housing stock and making renting unaffordable for locals.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/spain-airbnb-consumer-rights-1.7538482

 

[Allan]

Just for fun I did comparison of rental rates locals would pay and what a similar apartment would fetch as an Airbnb offering.

Barcelona monthly rental for locals, downtown area:
€1,260

Barcelona Monthly Airbnb rental, downtown area:
€7,000*

*Most Airbnb rentals are weekly. I took the per diem rate and converted it to monthly revenue.

 

[aociswundumho]

Spain's consumer rights ministry said on Monday it had ordered Airbnb to withdraw more than 65,000 listings for holiday rentals from its platform, saying they violated existing rules.

1) JFC, suppressing supply worsens the housing problem.

2) Tourism is extremely important to Spain's economy.

3) This is yet another property rights violation, which will make the population poorer in the long run.

 

[Sven Karma]

It's a grossly oversaturated market, especially in the most touristic Spanish areas:

Thinking of a trip to Barcelona this summer? Beware – here’s what you'll find | Stephen Burgen

From locals priced out of homes to visitors shopping at global chains, all of us are cheated in a city hollowed out by tourism, says Spain-based writer Stephen Burgen

www.theguardian.com

 

[dmpi]

Heaven forbid you want to fully utilized and monetize your property. Big bad goverment won't have it unless they get a cut of the action.

 

[Allan]

Heaven forbid you want to fully utilized and monetize your property. Big bad goverment won't have it unless they get a cut of the action.

They do get a cut. Airbnb rental income is taxed.

 

[PeteEU]

This is .... As I understand it..

Problem is AirBnB refusing to implement a new system of registrering short term ( less than 2 months) tourist rental appartements. The owner has the registration number (most likely) as it is them that have to get the registration done, but AirBNB has yet to implement an ability to input that number into their system. Booking.com and everyone else have implemented it.

So what will happen is that AirBNB will lose a ton of business to Booking.com and other sites.

As for the problem of too many tourist apartments and that jacking up the price for long term rentals...not easy to solve, as the demand is huge and yet they are building as fast as they can here, but that is often more expensive Northern European style housing, than traditional Spanish style which oddly is often cheaper.

 

[Lutherf]

We've always stayed at Airbnb properties in Europe and always had a very good experience.

But I can understand the concerns about their impact on rents and availability for the locals.

I think more cities will probably follow Spain's lead on this. Holiday rentals have become big business with some owners renting multiple properties. They're going to now struggle with the financing as their revenue will substantially drop.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/spain-airbnb-consumer-rights-1.7538482

This is good for Spain. Tourists ruin everything and should have their vacations made as hard as possible. The same goes for people that facilitate tourism. Tourism only accounts for 10-15% of Spain's GDP and they can make that up easily from other sources. By getting rid of tourism Spin would need less restaurants, less retail shops, less hotels. The Spanish people could then spend more of their days enjoying life instead of catering to obscene foreigners. All nations should do away with tourism!

Now, if people want to just show up at a nation's border and come there to live and sell drugs and commit crimes THAT needs to be protected but general tourism needs to be killed off entirely.

 

[PeteEU]

This is good for Spain. Tourists ruin everything and should have their vacations made as hard as possible. The same goes for people that facilitate tourism. Tourism only accounts for 10-15% of Spain's GDP and they can make that up easily from other sources. By getting rid of tourism Spin would need less restaurants, less retail shops, less hotels. The Spanish people could then spend more of their days enjoying life instead of catering to obscene foreigners. All nations should do away with tourism!

Now, if people want to just show up at a nation's border and come there to live and sell drugs and commit crimes THAT needs to be protected but general tourism needs to be killed off entirely.

I am guessing this is sarcasm....

 

[Lutherf]

I am guessing this is sarcasm....

Definitely sarcasm but, to be perfectly fair, there are factions I saw around Barcelona that sure seemed to feel that way. In general I felt quite welcome but there was obvious graffiti indicating that tourists were not welcome by everybody.

 

[venice_ca]

Years ago, pre Airbnb, we were caught up in a flash mob protesting in front of Barcelona’s City Hall — residents could no longer afford housing.

Somewhere I still have a card they were handing out - “Never in your (expletive deleted) life a home.”

Not as dire as in Spain, Airbnb has affected rents in Venice. The City of Los Angeles instituted taxes on Airbnb rentals that were not (almost) full time residences of the owners.That move freed up units for long term renters.

 

[Rexedgar]

Tourism is a double edged sword, the income is nice but people are like locusts, they’ll ruin an area and head back home. Many places are restricting cruise ships due to the instant influx of large crowds.

 

[Sven Karma]

Definitely sarcasm but, to be perfectly fair, there are factions I saw around Barcelona that sure seemed to feel that way. In general I felt quite welcome but there was obvious graffiti indicating that tourists were not welcome by everybody.

To be fair, the Catalans are a pretty miserable bunch, never happy until they've got something to complain about and there's probably a direct correlation between the independence movement running out of steam and the increase in protests against tourism.

 

[PeteEU]

Years ago, pre Airbnb, we were caught up in a flash mob protesting in front of Barcelona’s City Hall — residents could no longer afford housing.

Somewhere I still have a card they were handing out - “Never in your (expletive deleted) life a home.”

Not as dire as in Spain, Airbnb has affected rents in Venice. The City of Los Angeles instituted taxes on Airbnb rentals that were not (almost) full time residences of the owners.That move freed up units for long term renters.

Yea but fun fact.. who owns the homes that are being rented out on Airbnb? Spaniards mostly.

And if you put taxes on short term rentals, so that renters get pushed towards long term instead... the problem is the following.

Say there is a 3 bed apartment 100 meters from the beach that normally goes for 1000 euros a month long term. Now this apartment can be rented out for 1500 to 2000 per WEEK during the 4 months of summer. So 2000 x 4 x 4.. that is 32k Euros vs 12k euros. So taxes would have to be close to 50-70% for that to work and even in Europe that kind of discrimination might not pass muster according to EU rules.

And then there is the next problem. If there is no short term apartments, then where do tourists live? Hotels are already full, so where? Build more hotels.. takes time, and lets be clear.. the Hotels will jack up prices.

Finally.. we are also back to. Those short term apartments are mostly owned by Spaniards, who will lose a huge income, which will impact the local economy and so on.

It is not an easy to solve this problem, especially without harming the economy. And I suspect that thanks to Trump, the amount of tourists to Spain, France, Italy and Greece (Cyrpus and Malta) will skyrocket this summer depending on how bad or good the weather is in central to northern Europe. Can already feel that there are more tourists here where I live.

Also one thing to point out. This "Tourist rental" problem, is concentrated to Madrid, Barcelona, and down the coast (major tourist areas) toward Portugal.. aka Costa Brava and Costa del Sol. Travel 50 km inland and rental/housing prices are cheap. Problem is, Spaniards want to live in or near bigger cities, and not in the small rural town where you can get a 3 bedroom house for 40k US Dollars. There is a famous comment.. Spain is like a donut. People live around the coasts, and in the middle (Madrid) and the rest has next to no people there.. speaking from experience travelling in Spain.. it is correct.

 

[Allan]

And I suspect that thanks to Trump, the amount of tourists to Spain, France, Italy and Greece (Cyrpus and Malta) will skyrocket this summer depending on how bad or good the weather is in central to northern Europe.

There was an article in my paper this week with suggested destinations for Canadians who want to avoid the US. There were the usual places we're already familiar with like Cuba, Dominican Republic and Mexico.

The only European country on the list was Spain. It was mentioned as an inexpensive country with well priced direct flights from Toronto and Montreal.

 

[PeteEU]

There was an article in my paper this week with suggested destinations for Canadians who want to avoid the US. There were the usual places we're already familiar with like Cuba, Dominican Republic and Mexico.

The only European country on the list was Spain. It was mentioned as an inexpensive country with well priced direct flights from Toronto and Montreal.

Depends on how you define inexpensive.. but yea Spain is price competitive especially when you factor in lifestyle and culture.

The flights are only to Madrid and Barcelona I believe.. but then it is a short hop to the Costas.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Hotels are already full,

No they're not. The main thing is to avoid places that are like Magaluf, Ayia Napa, Mykonos etc etc.

Hard to get family apartments which is mainly why people starting looking for AirBnB because your 15 year old kids could have their own room instead of gagging when they saw their naked parents.

Anyhow - the more expensive hotels always have places.

Also one thing to point out. This "Tourist rental" problem, is concentrated to Madrid, Barcelona, and down the coast (major tourist areas) toward Portugal.. aka Costa Brava and Costa del Sol.

We see anti-tourist protests from the Canaries as well.

 

[PeteEU]

No they're not. The main thing is to avoid places that are like Magaluf, Ayia Napa, Mykonos etc etc.

Hard to get family apartments which is mainly why people starting looking for AirBnB because your 15 year old kids could have their own room instead of gagging when they saw their naked parents.

Anyhow - the more expensive hotels always have places.

Hotels on the Costa del Sol have 90%+ occupancy rate and that is pretty standard in many tourist areas during the summer months. Hell during the off season more and more hotels who use to close, are now staying open because they can get a 75%+ occupation.

The problem is that during the downturn in the late 1990s, a lot of hotels were turned into "tourist apartments" and those have not been replace with new hotels.

And yes families go for appartements..which they can get on Airbnb or Booking.com.

We see anti-tourist protests from the Canaries as well.

Yea again the same problem. It is the classic blame the foreigner, when the core of the problem is Spanish law/rules and Spanish owners of said tourist apartments.

Why rent out your appartment for 1000 euros a month to locals, when you can get double that a week from drunk Brits?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Hotels on the Costa del Sol have 90%+ occupancy rate and that is pretty standard in many tourist areas during the summer months. Hell during the off season more and more hotels who use to close, are now staying open because they can get a 75%+ occupation.

Hotels charge huge premiums in summer. The same holiday in March can be around £750 per adult for two weeks and £3000 per adult for two weeks.

Some people who can afford it book villas out instead and get private everything.

nd yes families go for appartements..which they can get on Airbnb or Booking.com.

Like I said - hotels tend not to have many family rooms, even the supposed "family friendly" hotels. They prefer to charge for adults in 2 separate rooms even when it may be two kids in one room and their parents in another.

Why rent out your appartment for 1000 euros a month to locals, when you can get double that a week from drunk Brits

You never let up on your anti-Britain horse do you? You going to say the only people who book apartments in Spain are Brits and they are all drunks? 3 of my ex-team in the fire service came back a month ago from 2 weeks in Barcelona. They may have been young men but they wouldn't have a job if they did anything stupid and reflected badly on the fire service.

 

[PeteEU]

Hotels charge huge premiums in summer. The same holiday in March can be around £750 per adult for two weeks and £3000 per adult for two weeks.

Some people who can afford it book villas out instead and get private everything.

Like I said - hotels tend not to have many family rooms, even the supposed "family friendly" hotels. They prefer to charge for adults in 2 separate rooms even when it may be two kids in one room and their parents in another.

And not sure what we are debating because we agree basically with the exception of how busy hotels are.. Hotels here in the summer are almost fully booked, and in the off season many are also near fully booked.

You never let up on your anti-Britain horse do you? You going to say the only people who book apartments in Spain are Brits and they are all drunks? 3 of my ex-team in the fire service came back a month ago from 2 weeks in Barcelona. They may have been young men but they wouldn't have a job if they did anything stupid and reflected badly on the fire service.

Hey, ask the locals in Bilbao about drunk Brits doing property damage....wrecking and stealing a freaking traffic light.. what the hell? Congrats Tottenham btw..

But it was not meant in that way.. and of course not only Brits book apartments.. hell one could argue, most DONT. My experience is Brits (families) tend to do package holidays at the resorts here, with TUI or whatever they are called these days and not go the private route. We have these huge holiday complexes here, where the tour operators place their clients.. you know the 2000 room mega complexes and they tend to be in or near what we call "English" areas.. so Benalmadena Costa and La Cala de Mijas. They also cater to families big time. The renters of holiday homes I know and talk to here (including the English ones) have mostly French, Northern Europe, Scandinavian clients with the occasional "seasoned" British couple.. aka those who have come here for the last 40 years type and who know how to get a good deal.. plus usually stay longer than 14 days. Heck the one I sometime take care off have Danes, Irish and Dutch as the main clients. Got some Aussies in the house at the moment..

Also the British drunk crown has been taken over by the Fins here. Boy they are bad now days.

My point is anyone who comes to the sunny south, come here to relax and have fun.. and god for bid, get drunk and laid and walk around like a red lobster. Renting an apartment with say 4-6 beds, for 2000 euros for a week is actually a good deal for the tourist and certainly €€€€€€ for the owner. I mean would you not like to earn 2x1 years wage in a couple of months and take the rest of the year off?

 

[bomberfox]

No they're not. The main thing is to avoid places that are like Magaluf, Ayia Napa, Mykonos etc etc.

Hard to get family apartments which is mainly why people starting looking for AirBnB because your 15 year old kids could have their own room instead of gagging when they saw their naked parents.

Anyhow - the more expensive hotels always have places.



We see anti-tourist protests from the Canaries as well.

Least they probably dont have mario cart tourists lol…

 

[Infinite Chaos]

And not sure what we are debating because we agree basically with the exception of how busy hotels are..

You originally exaggerated and said the hotels were full and I disagreed.

But it was not meant in that way.. and of course not only Brits book apartments.. hell one could argue, most DONT. My experience is Brits (families) tend to do package holidays at the resorts here, with TUI or whatever they are called these days and not go the private route. We have these huge holiday complexes here, where the tour operators place their clients.. you know the 2000 room mega complexes and they tend to be in or near what we call "English" areas.. so Benalmadena Costa and La Cala de Mijas. They also cater to families big time. The renters of holiday homes I know and talk to here (including the English ones) have mostly French, Northern Europe, Scandinavian clients with the occasional "seasoned" British couple.. aka those who have come here for the last 40 years type and who know how to get a good deal.. plus usually stay longer than 14 days. Heck the one I sometime take care off have Danes, Irish and Dutch as the main clients. Got some Aussies in the house at the moment..

Also the British drunk crown has been taken over by the Fins here. Boy they are bad now days.

At least you recognise that others get drunk too. I've seen plenty of videos of drunk Germans (sorry @german hick) thumping each other in the street round El Arenal and specifically the area the Germans call Schinkenstraße near Ballerman.
Equally - if you go north to Alcudia and around there where the snorkelling and dolphin watching holidays are based - you'll find much calmer British AND German areas.

would you not like to earn 2x1 years wage in a couple of months and take the rest of the year off?

I'd be stupid not to.

 

[german hick]

You originally exaggerated and said the hotels were full and I disagreed.



At least you recognise that others get drunk too. I've seen plenty of videos of drunk Germans (sorry @german hick) thumping each other in the street round El Arenal and specifically the area the Germans call Schinkenstraße near Ballerman.
Equally - if you go north to Alcudia and around there where the snorkelling and dolphin watching holidays are based - you'll find much calmer British AND German areas.



I'd be stupid not to.

Any country has it´s idiots

depends where you go. Never been in Mallorca. The Englishmen I met on the Camino were all polite retired buisnessmen