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Silly Knee Jerk Response Everytime A Tragedy Happens

PoS

Minister of Love
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Im kinda neutral on the confederate flag controversy but what I dont get is this silly knee jerk reaction from the public majority in thinking that if we somehow ban/censor flags and symbols that the whole problem of racism disappears. Doing something for the sake of doing something is just dumb because it doesnt solve anything and in fact might produce a greater backlash than ever before. The issue of race on America is far more deep rooted than just a flag- we need to take a closer view of how racial and ethnic divisons are institutionalized in this country so that we may arrive at a solution. Censoring or banning a flag is not the answer- thats like giving a leukemia patient some cough medicine- it solves nothing.

Bruce Schneier said it quite succinctly and summarized the stupidity syndrome:

"Something must be done."
"This is something."
"Therefore let's do it."

Thats not a solution to anything. :roll:
 
PoS said:
The issue of race on America is far more deep rooted than just a flag- we need to take a closer view of how racial and ethnic divisons are institutionalized in this country so that we may arrive at a solution.
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But that is precisely the argument behind removal of the flag - it is a method by which racial and ethnic divisions are institutionalized in this country. Put another way, if the government implicitly continues to endorse a symbol that is widely viewed by the vast majority of a racial division as being "racist," then removal of that symbol from the government building helps to de-institutionalize some aspects of racism.

Of course removal of the flag does not "solve" the issue of racism, there is no single solution to such a widespread issue. Similarly, there is no single solution to drunk driving accidents or house fires, but we have passed legislation which has greatly reduced the instances of those scenarios. Divorcing the government from an implicit (and explicit in some circumstances) acceptance of the confederate flag is a small step which might help as well.
 
Its a done deal Pos. :2wave: Even NASCAR came out and said they stand with SC and Haley in taking it down. That which offends, huh?
 

First, no one is arguing for "banning" the Confederate flat, at least, no one whose posts I've read. Flying in over the state capital, however, does give it some status which it doesn't deserve.

I mean, not even Colorado has started flying a flag with a pot leaf on it over their capital, but, if a Coloradan or anyone else wanted to have one on their car or flying proudly on their front porch, it would be perfectly legal. It hasn't been banned. The same is true of the rainbow flag, even the Nazi flag.

So, maybe I'm wrong. Show me who has called for banning the flag, and I'll agree that they're wrong.

And yes, you're right that racism is a lot more complex than just a flag, and that it's not going away any time soon whether or not SC continues to fly the flag over their capital.

But, taking it down would be one small step for mankind nonetheless.
 
PoS said:
what I dont get is this silly knee jerk reaction from the public majority in thinking that if we somehow ban/censor flags and symbols that the whole problem of racism disappears.
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Show me ONE person who has said that, let alone a public majority. Nobody thinks taking down the Confederate flag is going to cure racism.


There is truth in that but there is also a whole lot of middle ground between doing nothing and completley solving the problem. Recognizing that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of division to many people and because of that deciding not to fly the flag over state buildings falls into that middle ground.

South Carolina started flying the Confederate Flag in 1961 as a symbol of protest against the push for desegregation. Blacks knew looking up at that flag that their leadership didn't view them as equals. And that flag never came down. There is value in finally taking it down. No, it won't cure racism. But it will make some people feel a little less otherized by their elected officials.

We are human beings and, as irrational as it may seem, symbols are, and have always been, important to us.
 

The solution is not to remove the flag, but rather educate the public about what the Battle Flag of the Confederacy stands for. The assumption that it is a racist symbol is WRONG and by allowing it to be removed based on that flawed assumption only serves to further marginalize and polarize this nation. By banning it based on racist assumptions, you also tell everyone who flies as a symbol of opposition to an oppressive gov't, a symbol of personal freedom and a symbol of regional pride that they are racist, even with NO proof to support that accusation. Banning the BFoC based on racism does nothing more than allow bigotry to rule and reason to fall.
 

I would love to see you take your message of educating the public about the purpose of the Battle Flag of the Confederacy to Harlem. I hold very low expectations on your chances of success. Listen, even if you could convince individuals that the Confederate flag is not a symbol of racism, what justification do you have for leaving a flag at Government buildings?

No one is advocate that we ban the flag or prevent individuals from waving the flag. But, on the other hand, no one can prevent others from calling that person insensitive, at best, and racist (which they probably are if only you just gave them a few drinks) at worst.
 
faithful_servant said:
The solution is not to remove the flag, but rather educate the public about what the Battle Flag of the Confederacy stands for.
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That sort of presupposes that anyone really cares what it stands for.

Why would anyone care?

It's the flag of a failed insurgency.

If that means something to someone today then they're welcome to hang it from a broomstick in front of their trailer.

It doesn't belong on State property.

The folks who bray the loudest in support of this rag hanging anywhere because of it's "cultural significance" would be the first ones up in arms if a Mexican flag were hung in front of the state house because of it's "cultural significance" to the people of that state.
 
So,....we don't need gun control, we need flag control. :lamo
 

SO just give up and allow ignorance to rule the day. sad....
 

...and another bigot chimes in...
 

A flag is a piece of cloth, do you think removing it will change anyone's mind if they are already prejudiced against other races? Censorship does nothing positive and in fact may only spur even more animosity.
 
i read an article in the HuPo talking about how horrible it is to live under the oppression fo the confederate flag. Yet in Charleston I see a community that is doing pretty good for itslef. Meanwhile...blood runs in the streets daily in Chicago and every other big city in America. Man...They must have Confederate flags EVERY fricken where.
 
PoS said:
A flag is a piece of cloth, do you think removing it will change anyone's mind if they are already prejudiced against other races? Censorship does nothing positive and in fact may only spur even more animosity.
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There is a distinct difference between asking the Government to stop implicitly endorsing a racist symbol and "censorship." And of course I do not think that removing the confederate flag from government grounds will fix racism or even change everyone's minds - with the exception of the rapidly changing point of view as it relates to whether a confederate flag should be flown on Government grounds - but the only people demanding a "single solution" are those who are just those who are trying to maintain the status quo.
 
faithful_servant said:
SO just give up and allow ignorance to rule the day. sad....
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Ok, please do me a favor. I am a white male, born and raised in the South. If you can manage to convince me that the Confederate flag is a not an implicit (if not explicit) symbol of racism, then you have a better chance of "educating" the rest of America. Please proceed.
 

It's a subjective choice to see it as a sign of racism. It's historical significance is not as a symbol of racism, but as a symbol of opposition to the gov't's over-reach, a symbolism that it maintains today. It's VASTLY more likely to be used in that fashion than as a racist symbol. One of the most well known displays of the BFoC was it's use on the TV show "Dukes of Hazzard" where it's clearly a symbol of fighting back against "the man" and it's that attitude that's behind most displays of the BFoC. It's when prejudice and bigotry against the people who fly the BFoC comes into play that it gets interpreted as being only about racism (the ONLY possible justification for banning/removing it). Just because you're a bigot, doesn't mean that the guy who flies the BFoC because he dreams of being Luke Duke is a racist.
 
faithful_servant said:
...another bigot...
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I little bit, yeah.

But I'm not allowing my overall general distaste for southern people cloud my judgement on this issue.

A state government hanging the flag of an enemy insurgency over the capitol building of an American state is retarded no matter how you look at it.
 

A state gov't flying a flag that stands for opposition to fed gov't over-reach sends a clear message that there is a line that that state won't go past. The irony here is that removing this symbol of opposition to gov't over-reach is an action of gov't over-reach.
 

If freeing slaves is "fed gov't over - reach", then you do have a point.
 
faithful_servant said:
The Civil War was about a LOT more than slavery...
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Now you've done it.... the Progressive fact deniers will descend on you like a plague of locusts with their version of events they wish to use to re-write history. :naughty
 
Dittohead not! said:
If freeing slaves is "fed gov't over - reach", then you do have a point.
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Actually it is, from a constitutional authority of the time, position. Not that it is right or wrong. In fact so was the Civil War, the Southern States had every constitutional right to secede.
 
blaxshep said:
Actually it is, from a constitutional authority of the time, position. Not that it is right or wrong. In fact so was the Civil War, the Southern States had every constitutional right to secede.
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That depends on your interpretation of the Constitution, I suppose, and you could make a good case that the southern states should have been simply allowed to go their separate ways.

The reason for secession was, what again? The posts above seem to be saying that the issue wasn't slavery after all, so what was it?
 

There is no interpretation, Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution enumerates the powers granted to the federal government, and the power to prevent secession is not one of them. In any case was slavery the issue? It certainly was part of it, if not the primary argument. Still doesn't change the fact that the North overstepped their authority.
 
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