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I'm thinking it also has a lot to do with the fact that the police can't be everywhere at once though.
there are many things that I have given lots of thought. like I said, it is a mental exercise. I saw an article talking about all the unsolved murders in the country and how many of them might be the work of serial killers and it made me wonder how a person might be able to be a serial killer and not get caught.
Are you a psychologist? Have you interviewed or spoken to these kids? What do you know about their mental health, their upbringings, etc?
Whoever claimed that ALL juveniles can be rehabilitated. I said that they are the ones most worthy of rehabilitation and should not ever be charged as adults because they are NOT adults, even if they suffer from a mental illness. In fact, charging them as adults if they DO suffer from a mental illness is even more bogus.
people who commit crimes like this are highly unlikely to be rehabilitated.
I know that at least two of them come from broken homes with no strong family support: strike one
I know that at least one of them has already been through the juvie system and it failed: strike two
the very nature and details of this crime reveals cold calculated actions and not a lack of judgement or recklessness: strike three
CONCLUSION 1:
A main conclusion from this inquiry is that there has to be a separation of
treatment for first time offenders and chronic offenders (Lober, Farrington, Petechuk,
2003). Many times the same rehabilitation methods are used for both groups. This is
ok but that the fact is that chronic offenders tend to commit more crimes and more
serious crimes. So the duration of treatment and even specific methods used have to
be purposeful for chronic offenders.
CONCLUSION 2:
Rehabilitation and the success rate of the juvenile delinquent is contingent
upon everyone involved in the rehabilitation process willing to make the changes
and sacrifices necessary to achieve the goal of a rehabilitated juvenile re- entering
society as healthy citizen (Mincey et al ,2008). This plays a major role in the success
or failure of juvenile delinquents
Slow down on the weasling out attempt by now adding the word all. Your response, that I replied with quote to, was to this specific statement made by OscarB63:
To which you said that experts disagree, thus implying, quite clearly, that those involved in this case are good candidates for rehabilitation, not all not most and not some juveniles but only those juveniles involved in this case.
Now you resort to generalizations about juveniles in general - which is not the point being made by myself or OscarB63.
I will agree that the OP used both all and those in this case interchangably in the poll's title and lead post, but that aside, my comment addressed a specific claim that you made and not the juvenile justice system in general. This case, the execution of Chris Lane, is an exception and not the rule, thus it made the news.
Is that how you feel about juveniles too, because evidence contradicts that, as I've posted numerous times now. Since you guys apparently don't like to look at links, I've taken the liberty to quote just some relevant sections. It would be much better to read the entire thing, but whatever. Here is just ONE reason why teens should not be prosecuted as adults.
Brain Connection » Powered by Posit Science - Your Brain Health Headquarters
*sigh* My comment was generic, but fine...The researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers. Adults also have lower activity in their amygdala than teenagers. In fact, as teenagers age into adulthood, the overall focus of brain activity seems to shift from the amygdala to the frontal lobes.
The frontal lobes of the brain have been implicated in behavioral inhibition, the ability to control emotions and impulses. The frontal lobes are also thought to be the place where decisions about right and wrong, as well as cause-effect relationships are processed. In contrast, the amygdala is part of the limbic system of the brain and is involved in instinctive “gut” reactions, including “fight or flight” responses. Lower activity in the frontal lobe could lead to poor control over behavior and emotions, while an overactive amygdala may be associated with high levels of emotional arousal and reactionary decision-making.
The results from the McLean study suggest that while adults can to use rational decision making processes when facing emotional decisions, adolescent brains are simply not yet equipped to think through things in the same way. For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle. As Dr. Yurgelun-Todd told U.S. News, “Good judgment is learned, but you can’t learn it if you don’t have the necessary hardware.”
Jay Giedd and his colleagues at the National Institutes of Mental Health (NIMH) have reached similar conclusions using a brain imaging technique that looks at brain structure rather than activity. Giedd’s results suggest that development in the frontal lobe continues throughout adolescence and well into the early twenties. The researchers found that the number of neurons in the frontal lobe continued to increase throughout childhood until an average age of 12.1 years for men and 10.2 years for women. Scientists previously thought that gray matter production and development only occurred during the first 18 months of life. The fact changes are still occurring in the brain during adolescence provides some evidence against some popular theories that suggest that our brains are hardwired during early childhood. These brain imaging studies instead suggest that adolescence may provide a sort of “second chance” to refine behavioral control and rational decision making.
These studies may offer some hope to teenagers suffering from behavioral or emotional problems. The fact that the decision making centers of the brain continue to develop well into the early twenties could mean that troubled teenagers still have the time as well as the physiology to learn how to control their impulsive behaviors.
*sigh* My comment was generic, but fine...
Anyway, is it not possible that bad behavior and/or judgment is learned as well? Where do all these adults with poor behavior and judgment come from? Is their bad behavior/judgment learned... reinforced... at a young age (as you are seemingly wont to do)? Or, are we simply on a quest for what we want to hear and one-sided excuses?
What are you talking about? The question in the OP is should 15 and 16-year-olds be treated as adults in the justice system.
Okay, now that I reread the title, maybe the OP is referring to these specific 15 and 16 year olds, but regardless nobody knows if they could be rehabilitated or not. You and others here are certainly not experts, and I would defer to what they have to say about these three instead of making all decisions based on some spotty news articles.
I made it quite clear what I was talking about, as did OscarB63: the "alleged" killers of Chris Lane. I doubt that any experts have had time to express an educated opinion as to their ability to be rehabilitated, yet you asserted that was so.
I'm thinking it also has a lot to do with the fact that the police can't be everywhere at once though.
Slow down on the weasling out attempt by now adding the word all. Your response, that I replied with quote to, was to this specific statement made by OscarB63:
To which you said that experts disagree, thus implying, quite clearly, that those involved in this case are good candidates for rehabilitation, not all not most and not some juveniles but only those juveniles involved in this case.
Now you resort to generalizations about juveniles - which is not the point being made by myself or OscarB63.
I will agree that the OP used both all and those in this case interchangably in the poll's title and lead post, but that aside, my comment addressed a specific claim that you made and not the juvenile justice system in general. This case, the execution of Chris Lane, is an exception and not the rule, thus it made the news.
I did no such thing. I asserted that teens are capable of being rehabilitated, that does not exclude or include these three, as I could not say such things as I've never spoken to them and I'm NOT a psychiatrist.
Good LORD! If anything, it's a lot of others who are asserting they CANNOT be rehabilitated.
exactly. which is why the decision to try minors as adults is made on a case by case basis.
I did no such thing. I asserted that teens are capable of being rehabilitated, that does not exclude or include these three, as I could not say such things as I've never spoken to them and I'm NOT a psychiatrist.
Good LORD! If anything, it's a lot of others who are asserting they CANNOT be rehabilitated.
:lol: :doh Teens does not include or exclude based only on age? :roll:
I am done trying to "reason" with you on this issue.
And that takes into account multiple factors, not what people read in news articles, but people who actually examine the kids and are qualified to make such judgments without letting emotion cloud their judgments.
some cannot. and given the circumstances surrounding the crime they committed and the manner in which it was carried out, it would appear that these 3 are poor candidates for rehabilitation through the juvenile system. the one who was already on juvie probation in particular.
I don't think you have the qualifications to make such decisions.
which is why, in this case, I defer to the Oklahoma authorities who have decided to charge these 3 as adults...instead of claiming that teenagers should NEVER be charged as adults, as you have done.
I don't think you know what that word means. Your post doesn't even make sense.
To clarify for you, I mean that my talking about "teens" being capable of rehabilitation does not mean that these three would. Understand now?
teens
/tēnz,
noun
plural noun: teens
1. the years of a person's age from 13 to 19.
"they were both in their late teens"
As far as I know teens means ages between 13 (thirteen) and 19 (nineteen), since only those ages end in "teen".
The prosecutors are in control. They can decide to listen or not listen to recommendations. Of course the prosecutors want to charge them as adults. That is far from surprising. I'd like to know what data they used to make this determination, or is it strictly based on the nature of the crime.
Are you a psychologist? Have you interviewed or spoken to these kids? What do you know about their mental health, their upbringings, etc?
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