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What are you talking about? Try for a bit of common sense.
What are you talking about? Try for a bit of common sense.so you are stating your opinion AGAIN without any proof of such claim
got it, thats what I thought
for the record every pro-lifer I know in person doesnt even consider abortion murder not just the morning after pill
now Im not saying those people dont exist. i seen them extremists on-line, on forums and video clips but Ive never encountered one in person
will do! lol
and what I mean is that every time I explain to him that abortion isnt murder he said thats crap and nobody agrees with me.
I further explained how words have definitions and he cant just make them up, he said that was also crap and non one agrees.
it was pretty funny.
So where is the distinction that pro-lifers should make? When they avowedly think a fetus is as much a full human being and person as an adult, where does the distinction come from which allows them to see the killing of an innocent adult as murder and that of a fetus as not murder?
Ahhh... thanks.
Still haven't recovered from the jet lag... in the USA now for the holidays and for most of January...
What are you talking about? Try for a bit of common sense.
Well some might not understand that there is a real dispute over whether it causes abortion. But, unless they have an unusual pro-life philosophy, they are being inconsistent or lacking moral courage if they aren't against it. If the dispute is cleared up and it can be shown not to cause abortion then not all pro-lifers should be against it, but right now they should be, unless they have an unusual pro-life position.
welcome back, where were you vacation?
At the moment I'm beginning to wonder if consciousness always exists after birth, let alone whether life always begins at conception.
I am on vacation now. I moved to New Zealand 5 years back with my little daughters. Back for Christmas, family and Disneyland.
I don't argue with that... even though I have nothing but love for Objective J. :lol:
I understand your point, though the cells at conception form a zygote and not a fetus as minor as that point might seem. I think that the issue is that a fetus contains the requisite components of being a person. A zygote doesn't even come close and the best that can be argued, as I have, is that the zygote might contain a soul or consciousness that we cannot measure. Minus that and the zygote is just a few random cells. I understand what it might become... but we know that a woman is a woman with consciousness and a fully developed independent body and a zygote is a couple of cells that have a great chance of simply being purged from the system during the next female cycle of in a miscarriage.
I can see that some might call killing a zygote murder, but that only makes sense from a religious or moral perspective that probably has no logical or observable factors assigned to it.
oooh I had no idea
how is New Zealand? Like it there? Im guessing yes since you moved there lol
Love it. Love the USA too... but I like adventure. After 30+ years here I was ready to live overseas. We live on the North Island a few hours south of Auckland in the rural coast of Taranaki. Great surf (I am a surfer/beach guy at heart), live a few meters from the beach and lots of green forest. Amazing. Thanks for asking...
no problem, Never been but I have heard many good things about it there. maybe one day ill be lucky enough to visit that place.
Hows the gun laws there and right to defend yourself? LOL
There are very few guns... even the toughest of the tough gang bangers don't have many guns, much less use them. They use bats and machetes, if anything and that is against each other. There are also almost no gangs in New Zealand... not like the USA. I am not sure that there are any anywhere close to where I live. Guns are legal but mostly for hunting. I am not sure about carry permits and all that. Nobody I know has a gun except a few rifles for hunting boar. Who the hell wants to invade us down here anyway? Who even could? Also, the government here is very liberal compared to the USA and people here are just plain nice. It is like small town America EVERYWHERE... even in the cities.
I think Wessex fell asleep at the key board and I am tired and going to log of and catch some Z's. Take it easy man...
Sorry Bodhi but that response is simply questioning the entire pro-life philosophy, it is a pro-choice position, it doesn't really answer the questions about the logic and consistency of the pro-life philosophy.Wessexman... you said that I was a somewhat sensible person and may give you a proper answer but I think that you might have missed this response to you.
Would you not agree that there is a pro-life philosophy that is says life and personhood begins at conception? Don't you agree this is probably the most popular and most united pro-life position? It is certainly the one of Catholics and most evangelicals. This is the position I mean. I do not think it is too far off track to refer to this as the usual' pro-life position.
I am not trying to be rude in the slightest... seriously, but you keep talking about pro-lifers as if there is a uniformed code of thinking and I don't see that at all. I am actually pro-life in that I want all babies that are viable and that were not conceived of rape to be carried to term (for the most part) but I am also realistic in that women have their bodies and what happens to them and inside them is and should be under their control and nobody else's. I know quite a few people of like mind. Not all "pro-lifers" walk or talk the same talk... not at all.
Would you not agree that there is a pro-life philosophy that is says life and personhood begins at conception? Don't you agree this is probably the most popular and most united pro-life position? It is certainly the one of Catholics and most evangelicals. This is the position I mean. I do not think it is too far off track to refer to this as the usual' pro-life position.
Would you not agree that there is a pro-life philosophy that is says life and personhood begins at conception? Don't you agree this is probably the most popular and most united pro-life position? It is certainly the one of Catholics and most evangelicals. This is the position I mean. I do not think it is too far off track to refer to this as the usual' pro-life position.
this is what people typically do when they cant debate logically or back up their false claims, they try to deflect and insult and it always ends up in a failure.
now lets look back
can you prove
1.) abortion is murder
2.) the view that abortion is murder is the USUAL view of pro-lifers
so far you have offered ZERO evidence of either even though you have been asked repeatedly.
can you prove
1.) abortion is murder
2.) the view that abortion is murder is the USUAL view of pro-lifers
The first isn't a matter of proof. It involves value judgments.
The second is pretty obviously true and shouldn't require proof.
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