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No, it's not a "chicken or egg" argument at all. The law clearly states that "lawful contact" is the only justifiable pretense under which an LEO can attempt to determine a person's immigration status.
You just took a provision of the law out of context and made it seem like that was the pretense, when it clearly isn't.
Again, whether or not a person is required to have documentation of sorts is not at issue. You asked how an LEO could have a "reasonable suspicion" (incident to "lawful contact") that someone was an illegal immigrant. If an LEO pulled someone over for speeding and that person didn't have a driver's licence or any other kind of government ID, and couldn't tell the officer their address, the LEO could have a "reasonable suspicion" that the person was an illegal alien. That's what you asked me, and I gave you a perfectly legitimate answer.
You're obviously having some difficulty in understanding the language of this provision. An LEO can only attempt to determine someone's immigration status incident to "lawful contact"; all the potentialities that you are describing are not "lawful contact", which means they are just strawmen arguments.
a weak dodge
to suspect illegal behavior the potential for illegal behavior must exist
if not having a residential address is not illegal, then the failure to have one cannot be the suspicion that is use to allege possible illegal behavior
if not having a personal identity on one's person is not illegal, then the failure to have such identity cannot then be found suspicious of illegal behavior
but it is not necessarily so1. Your premise is logically flawed. For instance, having bloodshot eyes and poor coordination is not illegal, but it is certainly an indication that someone has been driving drunk.
license? but what of the passengers who would then be subject to the LEO scrutiny. must they provide personal identity to show they are American citizens and what form of identity would be required under the law for that2. I DID give an example of something illegal, i.e., driving without a driver's licence.
but it is not necessarily so
using your "logic" it would be reasonable to then incarcerate someone who had not slept recently and was entering a diabetic coma
license? but what of the passengers who would then be subject to the LEO scrutiny. must they provide personal identity to show they are American citizens and what form of identity would be required under the law for that
keep trying
but it is not necessarily so
using your "logic" it would be reasonable to then incarcerate someone who had not slept recently and was entering a diabetic coma
license? but what of the passengers who would then be subject to the LEO scrutiny. must they provide personal identity to show they are American citizens and what form of identity would be required under the law for that
keep trying
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
YouTube- Sheriff Joe Arpaio Pimp Slaps Infamous Douche Bag Al Sharpton!
Obama's spokesman and conceirge to The Kummunidy.
The fool(s).
With Obama, don't we have nothing more than Sharpton with a "cleaner" delivery?
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I was disappointed by the video, I was hoping that it was an actual pimp slap. I wish all law enforcement officials were like Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
With Obama, don't we have nothing more than Sharpton with a "cleaner" delivery?
.
I can't agree with that. I think he's one of the most wasteful LEO's in this country. It all makes for good sound bytes but, in practice, it's anything but fiscally conservative.
What has he done that is wasteful?
The inmates stay in tent cities, work in chain gangs,wear pink underwear, no air conditioning, eat only bologna sandwiches and water, the tvs only has two channels(last I checked, this may have changed). How are those things more expensive? Are those bologna sandwiches and water made with Boars Head brand bologna on Brioche and Gleneagles water? Are those pink boxers made of out silk? Are those tvs in jail the new Samsung 3d tvs? Do they strap gold ball and chains to the inmates working in chain gangs? Is he using select comfort beds for the inmates? Are those state of the art tents he is using to house those inmates? Or is he lying about the tent cities, bologna sandwiches,chain gangs and so on?
His civil rights violations and deviations from standard penal practices in the US.
I fully believe he does exactly as he claims.
.I also fully believe that the law suits defending his showboating cost far more than just putting the inmates in jails that meet the accepted standards
You failed to defend him then and you will fail now.
Lawsuits by scumbag and scumbag sympathizers does not mean he is not doing his job right. Nor does it mean he is the one costing the money
The Grand jury is still out on Joe. Why do you assume he is guilty before he has had his day in court and assume the people MCSO arrest are all innocent?His civil rights violations and deviations from standard penal practices in the US. .
Tent City has been in place for years and is ran on a very cost efficient budget. For all the terms Joe has been Sheriff and his jails were not meeting standards, why hasn't the county/state/feds done anything? Maybe because MCSO jails are ok. (Don't bother to bring up some of the law suite regarding treatment. I bet if I researched many LE offices have been sued.)I fully believe he does exactly as he claims. I also fully believe that the law suits defending his showboating cost far more than just putting the inmates in jails that meet the accepted standards..
We already went through this before. You failed to defend him then and you will fail now. Let's just enjoy the fact that he wailed on Sharpton for a bit.
The Grand jury is still out on Joe. Why do you assume he is guilty before he has had his day in court and assume the people MCSO arrest are all innocent?
Tent City has been in place for years and is ran on a very cost efficient budget.
Give him his day in court. The court issues cost money in and of themselves..?
Did you not state MCSO Sheriff Joe violated rights of individuals? You must think MCSO should not have arrested them.I never claimed innocence for those arrested. If you can show where I did, you are invited to try.?
No you claimed that his jails did not meet standards. I disagree.gain, I never claimed lack of lowered cost for "tent city". I claimed the cost of keeping it legal in terms of legal battles exceeds what is saved.?
it's waste of time and effort guarding the borderJustaB.:
You are right in Arizona there are a large population of hispanics that are American citizens or here legally. The news has stated that there is estimated >400,000 illegals and +1,000 entering the US/Arizona daily.
You don't like the new law. So help us in AZ out. So how would you go about identifying those that have entered illegally into the US from Mexico? Or do you want us to just look away?
I have been in Az since 89 and NM before that. When I was working I had contact with the public, sometimes in town and sometimes out on forest/public lands. While not 100% accurate, over time you can see how people react and tell if they were in the US legally or illegally.
IMO, the Feds need to secure the border and stop the illegal crossing. The Feds need to manage/control legal immigration.
How is this racist jackass anyway are a part of the Obama admiration. Oh, and bicycleman every politician does in someway use a teleprompter its easier for them to keep their eyes on the audience that way.
I may not like Aprio, but I really liked that he took a punch to Sharpton face. See not every, liberal like Sharpton who is a racist pig who race baits all the freaking time.
Zimmer what the hell is The Kummunidy is that somehow related to Kennedy family?
he advocates racist policies
he pulls you over for some concocted reason while you are driving
and someone in your car does not have a drivers license
the absence of a drivers license by a non-driver does not mean that person is not a citizen, and therefor subject to incarceration
the sheriff applauds the new state law because it authorizes him to make such unConstitutional arrests of persons who may be American citizens. why would someone who defends the Constitution approve of that outcome
you are walking down the street with a bag of your possessions, not appearing to have significant means. even tho you are a citizen you are not required - at least not now - to carry anything on your person which identifies you to be an American citizen. but because you do not have such identification the sheriff, under this new state law. is now able to detain you, unConstitutionally
and the persons who will be targeted under this new law are those who appear to be of Hispanic ethnicity. which causes him to be a racist, because he endoreses - applauds - such new unConstitutional authority
thanks for asking
Did you not state MCSO Sheriff Joe violated rights of individuals? You must think MCSO should not have arrested them.
There you go with the "scumbag and scumbag sympathizer" michael savage impersonation and I just stop listening to you. We're done here.
You trying to put the on cost of all those lawsuits by scumbags and scumbag sympathizers
Please, show me the fantastic leap in logic that equates Joe being a douche who costs the county money to the "criminals are innocent". I would love to see what bends and contortions of clear thinking lead to that erroneous conclusion.
As for the rest, once we've corrected your comprehension of the foundation, we can move on to your other mistakes.
WINNER!! That statement is the biggest piece of ignorant crap of the day...
And more veiled (only slightly) racism from a far-rightie...
And even people on the right find some of Sheriff Joe's methods distasteful and possible illegal...
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