Senate illegals bill near complete

Scum in the senate are near completing a bill to screw us.Selling your nation's sovereignty down the toilet should be a act of treason.These pro-illegal scum in office should be removed from office,tried and shot for treason.


from the other traitor times newspaper.
Senate illegals bill near complete - Nation/Politics - The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

Senate illegals bill near complete

Senators and lobbyists are putting the final touches on a comprehensive immigration-reform bill that includes an easier citizenship path for illegal aliens and weaker enforcement provisions than were in the highly criticized legislation that the Senate approved last year.
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat who ardently supports citizenship rights for illegals, will introduce the bill as early as next week, according to Senate sources knowledgeable about the negotiations. If the Senate Judiciary Committee can make quick work of the bill, it could be ready for floor action in April.
Mr. Kennedy drafted this year's bill with help from Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican, and outside lobbyists. Mr. McCain and the outside groups share Mr. Kennedy's support for increased immigration and leniency for illegals already in the country.

jamesrage said:

Scum in the senate are near completing a bill to screw us.Selling your nation's sovereignty down the toilet should be a act of treason.These pro-illegal scum in office should be removed from office,tried and shot for treason.


from the other traitor times newspaper.
Senate illegals bill near complete*-*Nation/Politics*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

Senate illegals bill near complete

Senators and lobbyists are putting the final touches on a comprehensive immigration-reform bill that includes an easier citizenship path for illegal aliens and weaker enforcement provisions than were in the highly criticized legislation that the Senate approved last year.
Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat who ardently supports citizenship rights for illegals, will introduce the bill as early as next week, according to Senate sources knowledgeable about the negotiations. If the Senate Judiciary Committee can make quick work of the bill, it could be ready for floor action in April.
Mr. Kennedy drafted this year's bill with help from Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican, and outside lobbyists. Mr. McCain and the outside groups share Mr. Kennedy's support for increased immigration and leniency for illegals already in the country.

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THis is ****ing stupid.
Someone explain to me why legal US citizens are met with stringent suspicions and questionings as well as searches when we travel around the US or out of the country then back. YEt all the mexican illegals need to do is just hop a wall.
For someone that wants to turn my statement into something racist? go screw yourself, this has nothing to do with race, this is about laws and legalities.
If you come in here illegally, you're an illegal. Nothing else left to be said about it.

I just don't understand the government right now and their pandering to illegals. Right now it seems they will stop at nothing to please them.I really don't know what to think of all this. I mean I support LEGAL immigration and all that but to give all these benefits to illegal ones is just wrong and a slap in the face to every citizen and legal immigrant.

americanwoman said:

I just don't understand the government right now and their pandering to illegals. Right now it seems they will stop at nothing to please them.I really don't know what to think of all this. I mean I support LEGAL immigration and all that but to give all these benefits to illegal ones is just wrong and a slap in the face to every citizen and legal immigrant.

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Because illegal's represent a huge untapped voting block.

I don't understand why no one is standing up against this. The government is undermining the rights and demeaning the status of every single legal citizen in this country with this bill.

Illegals are the new slaves, the top executives want to be able to circumvent every single legal avenue set up by workers unions requiring of certain benefits and representation and saftey measures with illegal immigrants. WHere are all those who scream patriotism now? Our problem is not with the illegal immigrants themselves or locking them up, our problem is the failure of our government to secure our borders and respect the rights and hardships our forefathers endured to acquire citizenship into this country.

This is nothing but a sellout, and I don't care what party affiliation you claim to, I think that at least on this issue we can come to an agreement that this most recent bill is nothing but a sell out of our citizenship.
Hey, in this case, **** my citizenship, I want to denounce my citizenship right now. That way I don't need to pay income tax either.

jfuh said:

THis is ****ing stupid.
Someone explain to me why legal US citizens are met with stringent suspicions and questionings as well as searches when we travel around the US or out of the country then back. YEt all the mexican illegals need to do is just hop a wall.
For someone that wants to turn my statement into something racist? go screw yourself, this has nothing to do with race, this is about laws and legalities.
If you come in here illegally, you're an illegal. Nothing else left to be said about it.

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Kind makes that patriot act and all those other bills to curb or fight terrorism seem kind of pointless.Its like having a burglar alarm for the house,but leaving all the doors,windows open and all the locks to everything unlocked.

jfuh said:

THis is ****ing stupid.
Someone explain to me why legal US citizens are met with stringent suspicions and questionings as well as searches when we travel around the US or out of the country then back. YEt all the mexican illegals need to do is just hop a wall.
For someone that wants to turn my statement into something racist? go screw yourself, this has nothing to do with race, this is about laws and legalities.
If you come in here illegally, you're an illegal. Nothing else left to be said about it.

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So you want to do what Jamesrage wants? Round up 12-20 million people and deport them? Do you think that's realistic? Do you think that's the smart thing to do?

Perhaps if you got over whatever prejudices you're harboring and became a realist and started to deal with the reality of the situation you might reach a different conclusion.

The only solution is to deal with the fact that we have a problem and that the people here are not simply going to go home or away. Start there and then try to come up with a common sense answer that reduces a problem that will never be solved...or you can side with Jamesrage and line them all up and exterminate them...that's what he's calling for...but we already know he's all for genocide I just didn't know you were too????

Of course trying to deport 12 to 20 million illegals is not realistic but is it realistic to create legislation that will allow another 12 to 20 million to enter the country' That is essentially what this bill proposes. toss a general amnesty into the mix and you've got a great plan for total and uncontrolled disaster.

jamesrage said:

Kind makes that patriot act and all those other bills to curb or fight terrorism seem kind of pointless.Its like having a burglar alarm for the house,but leaving all the doors,windows open and all the locks to everything unlocked.

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Don't get me started with the patriot act or anything on terrorism with regards to this issue.
Actually I believe it's much worse than that.
IT's having an alarm, all the passages are open, but I'm forced to keep them open and to embrace a burglar when they come in to steal from me.

26 X World Champs said:

So you want to do what Jamesrage wants? Round up 12-20 million people and deport them? Do you think that's realistic? Do you think that's the smart thing to do?

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Is that what I want? Yes, is that realisticly feesible now? Absolutely not and for 2 reasons.
1. You can't keep them out.
2. The government wants to keep them here for politicians own senseless reasons.
Is it the smart thing to do? I don't know if you can define it as smart, but I believe it's the right thing to do. Yes, illegals need to be deported. 12-20 million didn't all come here at once, and they're not going to go all at once.
You target the employers that employ illegals and it won't be so difficult. They'll have to walk right back because there's no employment here.

26 X World Champs said:

Perhaps if you got over whatever prejudices you're harboring and became a realist and started to deal with the reality of the situation you might reach a different conclusion.

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Actually my reasons have zip to do with the stereotype prejudices that you are hinting at of me.
My reasons are as I described earlier. I already stated exactly of what my stance on racism here means.
Are illegals bad? no, but they are illegal. There's very little to argue about that.
Now if they wanted to become American citizens there are legal means, and I'm all about opening the quotas to allow for greater legal immigration numbers. But hopping the border for a short cut I can not accept.
I myself am a 2nd generation immigrant of this country so don't start going off on racism with me.

26 X World Champs said:

The only solution is to deal with the fact that we have a problem and that the people here are not simply going to go home or away. Start there and then try to come up with a common sense answer that reduces a problem that will never be solved...or you can side with Jamesrage and line them all up and exterminate them...that's what he's calling for...but we already know he's all for genocide I just didn't know you were too????

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Actually, there is more that needs to be done.
1. build a damn wall to actually keep the borders as borders
2. actually enforce immigration laws already in place.
3. enlarge immigration quotas to allow for larger legal immigrations.
4. Know of an illegal,deport them.
James rage is not the only other side of the debate. I disagree with him on many many issues but that illegals need be deported I agree to a certain degree. I recognize that we can't deport unless we actually have a means of keeping illegals out. Right now the government has failed us miserably in this.
If we get the frack out of Iraq, we'll have more than enough money to build a "great wall" pun intended.
I don't believe that illegals should become legal US citizens. My family fought hard to become US citizens through the legal routes. Why should ppl not have to work for the same thing simply because their country of origin is just a step away? You allow illegals then that's a bitch slap across the face for every single US citizen (native Americans included).

galenrox said:

As much as it pains me to say it, I'm inclined to agree with jfuh for the most part. What the hell is the use of having laws if our own government has no intention of enforcing them? There are ****ing reasons why we have immigration laws, and these reasons have absolutely nothing to do with race, xenophobia, or any of the other reasons repeatedly assigned by pro-illegals to anti-illegals. The simple reason of why we have immigration law is that humans are in their nature very similar to viruses, if we're able, we'll go where the resources are and multiply until we consume all of the resources, and then we move on. If we don't restrict how many can come here, then we'll eventually be sucked dry.

I'm torn on what to do with those who are already here, though. On the one hand, they've knowingly broken the law, and the consequences of their presence are well felt throughout the country. On the other hand, the deportation of 12 million people, many of whom have young children here who are US citizens (and thus would not be deported with their parents), seems a little too Trail of Tears-ish to me. Back to the first hand, we don't want to place further incentives on exploiting loopholes in our immigration policy, such as birth in the US means US citizenship.

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Not all laws are enforceable...for example do you want the very same government that you're being demanding of to arrest everyone who smokes weed?

What do you think would happen to the economy of the border states if 12 million people were taken out of the work force? Do you think prices would go up? Do you think productivity would go down?

What seems to be confusing a lot of you is that for the most part the vast, vast majority of these people are hard working, honest contributing members to US society. While here they pay taxes, do not get arrested and help drive a certain segment of our economy. These are facts and no amount of hysteria is going to change the truth.

Building a wall around both borders is the stupidest of all ideas because it's not realistic, it would be way too expensive and having border patrols that can guard the Southern and Northern borders will never happen.

Therefore passing legislation that allows the people who are already here to get on line, the back of the line that eventually leads to legal immigrant status seems to me to be the intelligent and realistic solution. The way it stands now is that it would still take 6-15 years to become a citizen and in the meantime these people integrate into American society and become legal taxpayers....hell that is what America has always been, a land of immigrants and yes over the centuries there have been millions of undocumented aliens who made their way here, this is not a new phenomenon.

26 X World Champs said:

So you want to do what Jamesrage wants? Round up 12-20 million people and deport them? Do you think that's realistic? Do you think that's the smart thing to do?

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It is only a smart thing to do once the border is secured and or sealed.It would be easier to drive out the illegal aliens by severely punishing those who hire,aid,house and or do business with illegals.

Perhaps if you got over whatever prejudices you're harboring and became a realist and started to deal with the reality of the situation you might reach a different conclusion.

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Why is that pro-illegal scum always try to label those who do not want our borders shitted on as racist?

The only solution is to deal with the fact that we have a problem and that the people here are not simply going to go home or away.

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If they could not work here,live here ,send money home from here and or do business here they would leave.

Start there and then try to come up with a common sense answer that reduces a problem that will never be solved...or you can side with Jamesrage and line them all up and exterminate them...that's what he's calling for...but we already know he's all for genocide I just didn't know you were too????

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I never said I was for lining them up and exterminating them.Do you have any proof I said this?

jfuh said:

Don't get me started with the patriot act or anything on terrorism with regards to this issue.
Actually I believe it's much worse than that.
IT's having an alarm, all the passages are open, but I'm forced to keep them open and to embrace a burglar when they come in to steal from me.

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That is a better and more accurate way of looking at it.

26 X World Champs said:

Not all laws are enforceable...for example do you want the very same government that you're being demanding of to arrest everyone who smokes weed?

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It doesn't mean the government should pass a law that makes it alright for people to smoke it out in the open.


What do you think would happen to the economy of the border states if 12 million people were taken out of the work force? Do you think prices would go up? Do you think productivity would go down?

What seems to be confusing a lot of you is that for the most part the vast, vast majority of these people are hard working, honest contributing members to US society. While here they pay taxes, do not get arrested and help drive a certain segment of our economy. These are facts and no amount of hysteria is going to change the truth.

Building a wall around both borders is the stupidest of all ideas because it's not realistic,it would be way too expensive

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If we can spends billion on war and give billions way in foreign aid surely we can build a wall on our borders.

and having border patrols that can guard the Southern and Northern borders will never happen.

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We can always vote for people who will put people on the border to guard it.

Therefore passing legislation that allows the people who are already here to get on line, the back of the line that eventually leads to legal immigrant status seems to me to be the intelligent and realistic solution.

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What is realistic about encouraging millions of more people to disregard our immigration laws for amnesty?Because it won't just the illegals who are already here we have to worry about.It is basically giving every minor in the bar free beer and standing outside of a bar with a sign that says "free beer, no ID check" sign.

The way it stands now is that it would still take 6-15 years to become a citizen and in the meantime these people integrate into American society and become legal taxpayers....hell that is what America has always been, a land of immigrants and yes over the centuries there have been millions of undocumented aliens who made their way here, this is not a new phenomenon.

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Back then we did not have welfare,inoculations, massive public education system,section 8 housing,food stamps and other things we as tax payers have to pay for.Giving amnesty to 10-20 million illegals will make 10-20 million citizens we have to give those things to and it will only make it worse because it will encourage more people to disregard our borders because they know traitors in the government will give them a free pass.

jamesrage said:

It is only a smart thing to do once the border is secured and or sealed.It would be easier to drive out the illegal aliens by severely punishing those who hire,aid,house and or do business with illegals.

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Nice rhetoric but totally unrealistic. Exactly how will you do this? With what police force? How will you deal with inflation that will lead to higher unemployment and the possible exporting of more businesses from the USA? That's your solution?

jamesrage said:

Why is that pro-illegal scum always try to label those who do not want our borders shitted on as racist?

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Because posters like you regularly contribute hate-filled and racist posts on a broad swath of subjects. Of all the people in this community I feel your posts have been the most consistently violent and prejudiced. That is your norm, the way you are here, do you deny this obvious fact? Are you, like Bush, in a state of denial?

jamesrage said:

If they could not work here,live here ,send money home from here and or do business here they would leave.

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See my first response above. You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz for your solution for it is a fantasy. 12-20 million people Mr. Rage is an awesome number to lose in the work force and what do you think it would cost to deport them? Do you actually believe that 12 million will leave?

jamesrage said:

I never said I was for lining them up and exterminating them.Do you have any proof I said this?

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Oh right....all that you said in the first post of this thread was:

jamesrage said:

These pro-illegal scum in office should be removed from office,tried and shot for treason.

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26 X World Champs said:

Nice rhetoric but totally unrealistic. Exactly how will you do this?

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Confiscate the property of those who hire illegals in order to encourage law enforcement to crack down on those who hire illegals,We do it with drug dealers.

How will you deal with inflation that will lead to higher unemployment and the possible exporting of more businesses from the USA? That's your solution?

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Not everything can be exported.I am willing to pay more for things.

Because posters like you regularly contribute hate-filled and racist posts on a broad swath of subjects. Of all the people in this community I feel your posts have been the most consistently violent and prejudiced. That is your norm, the way you are here, do you deny this obvious fact? Are you, like Bush, in a state of denial?

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I am have never made any racist post.

See my first response above. You might as well ask the Wizard of Oz for your solution for it is a fantasy. 12-20 million people Mr. Rage is an awesome number to lose in the work force and what do you think it would cost to deport them? Do you actually believe that 12 million will leave?

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If we severely punish those who hire illegals,deny illegals any benefits,and make it impossible for illegals to live then most likely we will not have to deport them.If they can not live,work and or do business here then will not want to live here.

Oh right....all that you said in the first post of this thread was:

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I never said to round up illegals to try and shoot for treason.

26 X World Champs said:

Not all laws are enforceable...for example do you want the very same government that you're being demanding of to arrest everyone who smokes weed?

What do you think would happen to the economy of the border states if 12 million people were taken out of the work force? Do you think prices would go up? Do you think productivity would go down?

What seems to be confusing a lot of you is that for the most part the vast, vast majority of these people are hard working, honest contributing members to US society. While here they pay taxes, do not get arrested and help drive a certain segment of our economy. These are facts and no amount of hysteria is going to change the truth.

Building a wall around both borders is the stupidest of all ideas because it's not realistic, it would be way too expensive and having border patrols that can guard the Southern and Northern borders will never happen.

Therefore passing legislation that allows the people who are already here to get on line, the back of the line that eventually leads to legal immigrant status seems to me to be the intelligent and realistic solution. The way it stands now is that it would still take 6-15 years to become a citizen and in the meantime these people integrate into American society and become legal taxpayers....hell that is what America has always been, a land of immigrants and yes over the centuries there have been millions of undocumented aliens who made their way here, this is not a new phenomenon.

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Here we go again. Anytime someone wants order on the border and our laws inforced someone always goes straight to the "how are you going to deport (however many) millions of illegals?". It's just a ridiculas arguement. Here's what needs to be done...Lock down the border and yes it can be done.There will never be controls on the flow of people unless there is total control on the border. I'm all for making it easier to become citizens but most of the illegals don't want citizenship, they don't want to be Americans. They are here to work and send money home to Mexico to their families. If our Gov. would inforce the laws we already have, then the companies that hire illegals would be fined.The companies would therefore be weary of hiring them if at all. The jobs would dry up and they would go home. The ones that want want to stay they can start the process of becoming citizens.

26 X World Champs said:

So you want to do what Jamesrage wants? Round up 12-20 million people and deport them? Do you think that's realistic? Do you think that's the smart thing to do?

Perhaps if you got over whatever prejudices you're harboring and became a realist and started to deal with the reality of the situation you might reach a different conclusion.

The only solution is to deal with the fact that we have a problem and that the people here are not simply going to go home or away. Start there and then try to come up with a common sense answer that reduces a problem that will never be solved...or you can side with Jamesrage and line them all up and exterminate them...that's what he's calling for...but we already know he's all for genocide I just didn't know you were too????

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Typical. If someone disagrees with a minority then that person is automatically a racist.Conservatives get the regular tag- racist, homophobe, biggot. It's gotten to the point that it's funny.

galenrox said:

Now as this is a legitimate claim relatively often, it is important that we make sure we maintain its credibility, and I'm not entirely sure its applicable in the defense of jamesrage.

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I think this totally applies to jamesrage. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that he is a racist.You can be sick and tired of illegal immigration and still be nonracist toward Mexicans and Hispanics in General. Immigration IS a seperate arguement from not likeing a certain race.

alienken said:

I think this totally applies to jamesrage. I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that he is a racist.You can be sick and tired of illegal immigration and still be nonracist toward Mexicans and Hispanics in General. Immigration IS a seperate arguement from not likeing a certain race.

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That is not entirely accurate. Immigration has been used in many instances in our countries past because of racism - ie the Chinese exclusion act.

jfuh said:

That is not entirely accurate. Immigration has been used in many instances in our countries past because of racism - ie the Chinese exclusion act.

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Our society can handle only so many immigrants. That is why there are "controls" on it. I understand Jameasrage better because I'm closer to the problem. I was born and raised in Pasadena, Texas. There was always alot of Mexicans there (illegal or not) and I grew up with them.Some of my friends were Mexicans, I dated Mexican girls, even married one. I moved out of that area for a while and now when I go back, it is really Little Mexico. The donut shops were replaced with taco stands and most of the signs are in Spanish. Most of the drivers on the road are Mexican and their loud spanish music is everywhere. All of this might be nice on a vacation to Mexico but try living around it.After a while you just want to get away from them. I'm glad I moved away from them and enjoy my white neighbors with their quietness and their English but that doesn't make me racist. I still like Mexicans, there are good hard working people. It's hard not to respect them but I don't want them to take my country and my culture away because that IS what is happening here.They do not want to asemilate.They do not want to become Americans.They do not want anything to do with our way of life and our culture.

jfuh said:

That is not entirely accurate. Immigration has been used in many instances in our countries past because of racism - ie the Chinese exclusion act.

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By the logic of using past deeds of different individuals in the past ,every anti-war individual would have no room to complain every time a anti-war protester was called un-American/anti-military because of the actions of Fred Phelps,every Islamic extremist, Jane Fonda and other similar people.You have to look at what the individual basing the belief or decision on instead of automatically assuming that person is a racist,anti-American/Anti-military.

galenrox said:

Now as this is a legitimate claim relatively often, it is important that we make sure we maintain its credibility, and I'm not entirely sure its applicable in the defense of jamesrage.

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I am not a racist.

jamesrage said:

By the logic of using past deeds of different individuals in the past ,every anti-war individual would have no room to complain every time a anti-war protester was called un-American/anti-military because of the actions of Fred Phelps,every Islamic extremist, Jane Fonda and other similar people.You have to look at what the individual basing the belief or decision on instead of automatically assuming that person is a racist,anti-American/Anti-military.

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There's no argument over this. In the case of the Chinese exclusion act, it was a purely racist law just as were the Jim crow laws in the south. Those laws were enacted for purely racists reasons. source

In the case of anti-war protesters, I don't see how they are anti-american or anti-military unless they are attacking the principles of this country or that they are attacking the military itself. I'm anti-Iraq war but that doesn't make me unpatriotic or anti-military. How can I be anti-military when I'm trying to bring home the troops to their families alive and with all appendages? ARe not the morons in this administration that continue this senseless imaginative war that despite all the recommendations of all the bi-partisan study groups and all the top accredited scholars are these guys not the anti-military?

Now we've had the slight detour and recall I never said anyone here is a racist. I'm merely pointing out how laws in the past had been set up to be racists and exclude a particular group.

alienken said:

Our society can handle only so many immigrants. That is why there are "controls" on it.

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How many can we handle?

alienken said:

I understand Jameasrage better because I'm closer to the problem. I was born and raised in Pasadena, Texas. There was always alot of Mexicans there (illegal or not) and I grew up with them.Some of my friends were Mexicans, I dated Mexican girls, even married one. I moved out of that area for a while and now when I go back, it is really Little Mexico. The donut shops were replaced with taco stands and most of the signs are in Spanish. Most of the drivers on the road are Mexican and their loud spanish music is everywhere. All of this might be nice on a vacation to Mexico but try living around it.After a while you just want to get away from them. I'm glad I moved away from them and enjoy my white neighbors with their quietness and their English but that doesn't make me racist. I still like Mexicans, there are good hard working people. It's hard not to respect them but I don't want them to take my country and my culture away because that IS what is happening here.They do not want to asemilate.They do not want to become Americans.They do not want anything to do with our way of life and our culture.

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This entire post has little to do with the topic at hand nor does it invalidate the post I made that you are responding to.
Entire neighborhoods overtaken by a particular ethnic group, so what? Do we not have our little italys? Little irelands? Chinatowns? It's the same thing, no difference. Whether they are intending to assimilate or not is a non-issue. If the people you met in your neighborhood are legal immigrants they have the rights and freedoms just as you and I to live how they choose to live with no one to judge those freedoms. If they're illegal, that is a completely different matter.
The issue here is the government betraying it's own citizens so as to open a new slave trade and new voting bloc. Yet all of this to a group that came here illegally.

alienken said:

Typical. If someone disagrees with a minority then that person is automatically a racist.Conservatives get the regular tag- racist, homophobe, biggot. It's gotten to the point that it's funny.

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If the shoe fits....to me the people in this country who racists, or homophobic or are bigoted by a strong majority Conservatives.

That does not mean that most Conservatives are those things but the ones who are racists etc. tend to be Conservatives.

It is illogical to think that Liberals are homophobic, isn't it? It's illogical to think that Liberals are racist or bigoted, isn't it? Therefore the people who are racists et al are mostly Conservative.

Why do you think the so-called "Southern Democrats" left the Democratic party in droves after 1964? It was due to the passing of the Civil Rights Act and many other civil rights legislations that the racist sect of the Democrats split and became Republicans where they remain today.