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Rule by decree passed for Chavez

Well at least his goals aren't murdering Jews, only reform in his own country (hopefully)
 
saggyjones said:
Well at least his goals aren't murdering Jews, only reform in his own country (hopefully)
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...and promoting terrorism, sticking his nose into other countries' elections, and destabilizing the region.
 
Jay R said:
BBC NEWS | Americas | Rule by decree passed for Chavez

Following in the footsteps of Hitler, Hugo strongarms the Venezuelans into handing their dictator absolute power. :roll:
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Wow!! I am certainly glad our Constitution and traditions still afford protection against would be authoritarians here. Chavez is scary. If any cities in America are still accepting financial help from his government, they need to halt it immediately. Democrats who have been treating him with friendliness do need to repudiate him, forthwith.
 
Kandahar said:
...and promoting terrorism, sticking his nose into other countries' elections, and destabilizing the region.
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Ha thats a laugh. Terrorism in Latin America eh? Ever heard of the school of the Americas? Sticking his nose into other countries' elections? Riiiight...so its ok for the US but not others right? Pray tell what's history of the US in just VZ BTW? Destabilising the region? Dont you just mean encouraging countries to break with Washington?

Feel free to enlighten us with the angelic history of the US in the area before you go accusing other countries of being such bad children.
 

Oh, jeez, another sophomore.
 
oldreliable67 said:
Oh, jeez, another sophomore.
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What? Your calling me a student? Apart from being incorrect its not actually very insulting. More of the rapier argument please. Thats what your here for isnt it?
 
EAGLE1 said:
Ha thats a laugh. Terrorism in Latin America eh?
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Ever hear of FARC?

EAGLE1 said:
Ever heard of the school of the Americas?
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American guilt does not absolve Chavez of his crimes.

EAGLE1 said:
Sticking his nose into other countries' elections? Riiiight...so its ok for the US but not others right?
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It's not OK for anyone. Do you disagree?

EAGLE1 said:
Pray tell what's history of the US in just VZ BTW?
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If the best defense of Chavez that you can come up with is "America did it too," then you obviously don't understand what you're talking about.

EAGLE1 said:
Destabilising the region? Dont you just mean encouraging countries to break with Washington?
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No. I mean promoting civil war in Colombia, trying to influence elections in many countries, and allying himself with countries like Iran.

EAGLE1 said:
Feel free to enlighten us with the angelic history of the US in the area before you go accusing other countries of being such bad children.
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See above. This thread isn't about the United States. Let the grown-ups debate this one, son.
 
Not good for the citizens of Venezuela, but as I ponder this, I also think about Congress right here at home, who gave the Bush administration the power to declare war on the wrong nation, to torture people, to perform rendition to nations that perform torture, to spy on American citizens here at home, to suspend Habeas Corpus, to take innocent people into custody and hold them for years, without access to the legal system or their families, and much more, all, of course, by decree.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Oh really when did Afghanistan ever attack us?
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On September 11th.

Bin Laden's bases were there, and so was the Taliban, which gave them refuge. The planning and initial training for the WTC attacks were at bin Laden's bases there too. I am surprised you have forgotten so quickly.
 

Of course Ive heard of FARC sonny. Son, if youd take your eyes off Fox News and newsmax for a second youd see that VZ and Colombia's right of centre government have been getting on well. Also VZ has been helping Colombia capture FARC leaders, son.

No its not OK, but its bit rich for the US gov and right wing elements to spout on about all kinds of naughtyness in LA when theyre knee deep in the **** themselves, do you agree with that, son?

Trying to influence elections in other countries? Oh my... that sounds terrible. The sort of thing a nation should be sanctioned for dont you think?

Meanwhile on terrorism....any word on the US extraditing Luis P Carriles? You know, the guy that blew up an airliner with 73 people on baord in 1976 that VZ wants prosecuted or extradited?

Chavez will ally himself with any country that has a prob with the US because he, quite rightly, has a prob with the US. Actually its you who doesnt know what he's on about, son. :roll:
 
danarhea said:
On September 11th.
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Afghanistan never attacked us.

Bin Laden's bases were there, and so was the Taliban, which gave them refuge. The planning and initial training for the WTC attacks were at bin Laden's bases there too. I am surprised you have forgotten so quickly.
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OBL was not in control of Afghanistan, he was not a member of the Afghani government, and there were terrorist training bases in Iraq too, for you to support one war and not the other is the height of hypocricy.
 
EAGLE1 said:
Of course Ive heard of FARC sonny. Son, if youd take your eyes off Fox News and newsmax for a second youd see that VZ and Colombia's right of centre government have been getting on well. Also VZ has been helping Colombia capture FARC leaders, son.
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They don't get along well at all. Colombia kidnapped a known terrorist off the streets of Caracas, because Venezuela wouldn't extradite him. As a result, Chavez hollered for weeks. Venezuela also gives financial aid to FARC.

EAGLE1 said:
No its not OK, but its bit rich for the US gov and right wing elements to spout on about all kinds of naughtyness in LA when theyre knee deep in the **** themselves, do you agree with that, son?
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What makes you think I'm a "right wing element"? Just because I'm not afraid to call a dictator a dictator? Grow up.

EAGLE1 said:
Trying to influence elections in other countries? Oh my... that sounds terrible. The sort of thing a nation should be sanctioned for dont you think?
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Sanctions don't work.

EAGLE1 said:
Meanwhile on terrorism....any word on the US extraditing Luis P Carriles? You know, the guy that blew up an airliner with 73 people on baord in 1976 that VZ wants prosecuted or extradited?
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You can accuse the United States of whatever you like, but it won't change the fact that Chavez is a power-hungry dictator who is a destabilizing force in the region.

Since you're new here, I'll attempt to explain something to you: You'll have to do more than post anti-American rhetoric, if you don't want your arguments to be ripped to shreds here. You'll have to actually know what you're talking about.

EAGLE1 said:
Chavez will ally himself with any country that has a prob with the US because he, quite rightly, has a prob with the US. Actually its you who doesnt know what he's on about, son. :roll:
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He's allying himself with a country that wants nuclear weapons, denies the holocaust, and wants to wipe another nation off the map. No petty squabble that Chavez has with Bush justifies this kind of irresponsible behavior.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Afghanistan never attacked us.
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Umm yes. They did.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
OBL was not in control of Afghanistan,
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Yes. He was.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
he was not a member of the Afghani government,
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LOL
You really think that that means that the Afghani government didn't attack us? The Taliban was in charge of Afghanistan, al-Qaeda was in charge of the Taliban, and Osama Bin Laden was in charge of al-Qaeda.


By your logic, Moammar Qadaffi is not in charge of Libya because someone else holds that title. :roll:

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
and there were terrorist training bases in Iraq too, for you to support one war and not the other is the height of hypocricy.
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For you to not recognize that every country in the world has a different situation requiring a different response is the height of idiocy.
 
Kandahar said:
...and promoting terrorism, sticking his nose into other countries' elections, and destabilizing the region.
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I thought we were talking about Hugo Chavez, not longstanding US Foreign Policy.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
and there were terrorist training bases in Iraq too, for you to support one war and not the other is the height of hypocricy.
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Err, what terrorist training bases are we talking about? The camps that housed anti Iranian "terrorists" (which the US locked up when they invaded.... ) or the ones that had PKK (and other kurds) targeting Turkey (which they did nothing about really)? What bases were used to train people attacking the US? Not to mention what bases had Al Q operatives in them?

Is it the base where they had a plane so someone could train in either hijack or raiding said plane? You do know the US special forces, Brits, French and most other western goverments have the same set up? And you do know that there are other countries with similar "planes" (planes are easy to get you know) and they also are hostile to the US? Bet Sudan has one, Yemen probally too.. bet even the Somalies could throw a plane into the desert for the same purpose. What about other countries that were much better funded and not under a blockade, and had/have "terrorist training camps"?

Or was it the heresay and supposed "rock solid" intel, which turned out to be crap, that AL Q had ties to Saddam, dispite them being sworn enemies? But let me guess.. Al Q talked at one point to an Iraqi official.. so thats good enought to destroy a country. And you calling us hypocrites? Rumsfeldt shock hand with Saddam.. he must be arrested and tried with treason then!

You and others keep coming with these idiotic claims, that have been debunked by every investigation on record. Even your own hero GW Bush admited there were no WMD and the terrorists links were at best feeble and no more extensive than to other middle eastern countries! The only ones STILL spreading such lies are Cheney and Rumsfeldt and of course the wacko right wingers who cant stomach the fact that they were WRONG!

you are a hypocrit not us.

As for Chavez... he is popular, and actually does something for the people.. so far. And what he is doing is in principple no worse or better than what Bush does with his signing statements.

And for the record.. I dont like Chavez and his attitude or the things he is doing, but I do not blame the people of Venzuela for not supporting him considering the right wing elitist goverments that came before Chavez.
 
Kandahar said:
Umm yes. They did.
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Umm no they didn't.

Yes. He was.
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No. He wasn't.

LOL
You really think that that means that the Afghani government didn't attack us? The Taliban was in charge of Afghanistan, al-Qaeda was in charge of the Taliban, and Osama Bin Laden was in charge of al-Qaeda.
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AQ was not in charge of the Taliban, they were there at the invite of the Taliban. Mullah Omar was in charge of the Taliban not OBL.

By your logic, Moammar Qadaffi is not in charge of Libya because someone else holds that title. :roll:
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How is that my logic? Did OBL make governmental decisions like Qadaffi?

For you to not recognize that every country in the world has a different situation requiring a different response is the height of idiocy.
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And what would your response have been? Perhaps another worthless no-teeth U.N. resolution?
 

Wow, you really dont know what youre talking about then do you? Have a look at what President Uribe has to say about Chavez lately.

Nah, its you who should grow up. Chavez has consistently won elections and referendums fair and square so calling him a dictator is wide of the mark.

Your right, sanctions probably dont work. But I was thinking about sanctions being applied to the US instead actually. I mean thats the country with a long history of interference in Latin America isnt it?

Power hungry dictator? Destabilising force in the region? Arent you talking about GWB and the US? Chavez has more of a mandate than Bush for a start. The US has been longer at the interference in sovereign nations than VZ could ever be.

Feel free to rip my argument to shreds Kandahar, Im so scared :shock: . In the meantime if you maike ignorant statements about VZ and Chavez I'll be doing you the same favour.

Wants nuclear weapons? Almost every other country does too so whats your prob with that? You even tried to prevent the Brits from getting it even after theyd been your allies in WW2. Denies the holocaust? Is that an internationaly recognised crime? Wants another country wiped off the map? Actually its regime change they want. Context is everything.

Petty squabble with Bush? :spin: Hardly. Bush knew about the 2002 coup before hand and didnt bother to either inform him or condemn it. There's nothing petty about that. More evidence I think that its you who doesnt know what theyre talking about.
 
Hasn't this been a continual plague in the region? Dictators promise some type of popular change, get elected, and slowly strangle the country into their control?



Chavez has done a lot of authoritarian things while he has been in office, and we have yet to see the results however. Did he not just recently nationalize the entire oil sector that has been powering his social pet projects? He loses the benefit of foreign companies invest, and in particular foreign companies that invest in the oil fields and provide maintenance, while the government sits back and collects revenue.



I say he's screwing up his country, however I do not know a lot about Venezuela or its foreign policies.
 
Kandahar said:
Ever hear of FARC?
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They're Colombian. Not Venezuelan.

Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They don't get along well at all. Colombia kidnapped a known terrorist off the streets of Caracas, because Venezuela wouldn't extradite him. As a result, Chavez hollered for weeks. Venezuela also gives financial aid to FARC.
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We support Alpha 66 and have protected known terrorist Mr. Posadas Carrilles for the past couple of years. Whats your point?
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
AQ was not in charge of the Taliban, they were there at the invite of the Taliban. Mullah Omar was in charge of the Taliban not OBL.
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They were "invited" the same way that a lawless area of town "invites" the mafia to protect them. Without al-Qaeda, the Taliban would not have survived. That's why they didn't turn Bin Laden over to the United States following 9/11, even though they knew it would mean the destruction of their regime: Because Bin Laden was the one calling the shots.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
How is that my logic? Did OBL make governmental decisions like Qadaffi?
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Yes, he absolutely did.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
And what would your response have been? Perhaps another worthless no-teeth U.N. resolution?
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Better than another worthless war that has made America, Iraq, and the world WORSE off than it was prior to the invasion.
 
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