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Republican's Citizenship Contradiction

MrWonka

MrWonka

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If a fetus is human life at conception then shouldn't it also be a U.S. Citizen? By that logic, if an undocumented immigrant woman is pregnant you can't deport her unless you can prove her child was conceived outside the United States.
 
calamity said:
Not nearly as dumb as the arguments trying to convince people that a six-week old fetus has a heartbeat...lol
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I have no clue what a heartbeat has to do with anything abortion related.

Becoming human is not magic nor is it defined in any single measurement.

It is a process. An evolution. A baby is not fully human at birth, it is simply the transition to the evolution outside the women's body.
 
noonereal said:
A baby is not fully human at birth, it is simply the transition to the evolution outside the women's body.
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This is science fiction. There is no "fully human" or "kinda human" or "potential human". There's just human.
 
MrWonka said:
If a fetus is human life at conception then shouldn't it also be a U.S. Citizen? By that logic, if an undocumented immigrant woman is pregnant you can't deport her unless you can prove her child was conceived outside the United States.
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By gum, I think you've got something there.
 
Josie said:
This is science fiction. There is no "fully human" or "kinda human" or "potential human". There's just human.
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Thanks for the superficial reply.
 
noonereal said:
More in depth analysis! Thanks!!
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I have to say I'm a bit nonplussed by your view that becoming human is a process. I suppose it works to say that a being could be partly human in the sense of being a half-elf or man-bear-pig or what-have-you. But it certainly seems that, outside of instances like that, the category of human being is sharply and starkly defined--there are no fuzzy cases of something becoming human but only being partially human at some point in time. That's how things appear to me, but I'd be interested to hear why you think something becomes human through a process. I suppose it could have something to do with how members of the category "human" are conceptualized.
 
Josie said:
Perhaps you could explain how, biologically, an infant isn't "fully human". We're all ears.
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It is not fully developed. Pretty simple really. Sorry you find these fundamentals so difficult to understand. That does not excuse bad behavior however.
 
noonereal said:
Straight science doesn't grab ya, huh?
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I'm quite keen on science, but I don't understand your view. Or rather, I don't understand why someone would think it's correct. Why do you think it's correct?
 
noonereal said:
It is not fully developed. Pretty simple really. Sorry you find these fundamentals so difficult to understand. That does not excuse bad behavior however.
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You didn't say "fully developed". You said "A baby is not fully human at birth."
 
MrWonka said:
If a fetus is human life at conception then shouldn't it also be a U.S. Citizen? By that logic, if an undocumented immigrant woman is pregnant you can't deport her unless you can prove her child was conceived outside the United States.
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Not necessarily. "Persons" have to be citizens of some country. If a fetus were considered a complete human, it should be a person.

I agree that in this case, a fetus would be a person and a pregnant undocumented person would be a deportation problem.

Anyone conceived in the US would have to be a person, so anyone who got pregnant on a honeymoon here and could prove it would have to be a person. People would have to get conception certificates for their fetuses. All conceptions would have to be immediately named and acknowledged to be citizens.

The child tax credit would apply for these fetuses. Pregnant women who didn't make enough money would be eligible for welfare and Medicaid for their kids, and prenatal care and childbirth would be paid for by the state.
Men who fathered the kids would be required to pay child support from conception, as they are in Utah.

Pregnant women who went abroad would have to have passports for their fetuses. It would be a problem internationally. As of today, when babies are born in Canada, they automatically become Canadian citizens, since they classify only born infants as persons. They do not share the fanaticism of US anti-abortion activists.

In any case, the Republicans and Libertarians would really not like the economic and immigration implications of fetal personhood . . . .
 
noonereal said:
I have no clue what a heartbeat has to do with anything abortion related.

Becoming human is not magic nor is it defined in any single measurement.

It is a process. An evolution. A baby is not fully human at birth, it is simply the transition to the evolution outside the women's body.
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Of course it is fully human. It is not a human being until it is born.
 
Josie said:
You didn't say "fully developed". You said "A baby is not fully human at birth."
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You knew and know exactly what my point is. It's made up of human tissue at conception, it is anything but a human at that point.

Foundational Human Qualities do not exist even at birth. They take time to evolve.

Honest, this stuff is fundamental which is what makes the anti abortion crowd sound like idiots.
 
noonereal said:
You knew and know exactly what my point is. It's made up of human tissue at conception, it is anything but a human at that point.

Foundational Human Qualities do not exist even at birth. They take time to evolve.

Honest, this stuff is fundamental which is what makes the anti abortion crowd sound like idiots.
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All I know is what you say. I don't try to read minds.

So you agree that an infant is fully human?
 
Josie said:
Perhaps you could explain how, biologically, an infant isn't "fully human". We're all ears.
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Perhaps you could explain why you keep dodging the point of this thread. Is a fetus a U.S. Citizen at conception? If so, would you block Republicans in Texas from deporting the mother so long as the fetus inside of her is a legal U.S. Citizen?
 
Josie said:
All I know is what you say. I don't try to read minds.

So you agree that an infant is fully human?
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Your answer is in this quoted post, read it again.
 
MrWonka said:
If a fetus is human life at conception then shouldn't it also be a U.S. Citizen? By that logic, if an undocumented immigrant woman is pregnant you can't deport her unless you can prove her child was conceived outside the United States.
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Actually, the person has to be BORN IN THE US, not just conceived.
 
Scrabaholic said:
Of course it is fully human. It is not a human being until it is born.
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This is the silliest post yet. IT IS NOT MAGIC,. This is just the baby changing developmental environments.
 
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