• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Republican Karen Handel Wins Georgia House Special Election


Coals never coming back, huh ?

First new coal mine of Trump era opens up in Pennsylvania
https://www.google.com/amp/insider.foxnews.com/amp/article/56330
 
That's not what the data says. More people from incomes less than $75,000 voted for Obama than Romney and above $100,000 a year voted for Romney over Obama.

What we is an education divide.
"The average working American" is not "predominantly college educated" - which is what your payscale data purport to show if you read the fine print.

I'm guessing there's a huge, hidden age effect in there.
 
As for losing centrists by moving to the left.... Who else were they going to vote for? Donald Trump is anything but an option for centrists.

I'm thinking you either didn't read my post or completely misunderstood it.

I was not suggesting centrists would move to Trump if Clinton had moved left. I actually flat out suggested they likely wouldn't have, and it was ONLY because the opposition was someone like Donald Trump that such a tactic would work in this specific election. My assertion regarding losing moderates and centrists by moving hard to the left was talking broader than just "this election", as when you are talking about where we are "as a country" you're making a statement not about a SPECIFIC election cycle but a generalized stance that would be true even outside of the current set of circumstances.

As I noted, I don't think it's an unreasonable position, at all, to suggest that had Hillary actually tried to embrace farther left policies or people more adamantly she likely could have came out on top in this election. I think it is a unreasonable assumption, however, to suggest that "as a country", a Democrat going hard left would simply make electoral victory likely regardless of whether the candidate was one like Donald Trump or someone like a Rubio or Kasich instead.
 
Coals never coming back, huh ?

First new coal mine of Trump era opens up in Pennsylvania
https://www.google.com/amp/insider.foxnews.com/amp/article/56330

What I said was "Those coal jobs are never coming back." That mine was in the works for a long time before Trump was on the scene and also has almost no impact on coal employment. What it did do is provide D.T. with a photo-op -- and that was the purpose. Coal employment has been decreasing for 100 years. Trump isn't going to change that market force.

 
Last edited:
That's not what the data says. More people from incomes less than $75,000 voted for Obama than Romney and above $100,000 a year voted for Romney over Obama.

What we is an education divide.


And what's the breakdown on all those Congressional races, state house races, and gubernatorial races going on at the same time, which went ways you didn't prefer? You can't take the results of a single Presidential election and apply it the parties as a whole.



What do you think this table does for you?

In table form, we can see that more wealthy people vote Republican; the middle-class ($0-99K) are even and below $40K are more Democrats:


No, it shows the purported breakdown of a single election from almost a decade ago.
 
Because the race was held in a traditonay republican district dems were claiming that flipping it would be a repudiation of trump and a sign of the things to come in the midterms.

The reality is they put everything they had into it and now will pretend their loss means nothing bevause it was a deeply red district.

The fact is that they ran a young charismatic candidate to appeal to millenials.

They tried to appeal to the anti-trump conservatives by claiming this election was a refredum on trump.

They went to court and got the right yo register new voters that did not vote in the election that created the runoff. So they nrought in nee voters to beat her.

They spent 23 million in advertising

They had pollsters claiming they were ahead by 7 points 2 weeks before the election and then changed it a tenth of a point the day of the election.

They pulled out all the stops and the end result is that they lost by 5%.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 

Had HRC won, it would not have been opened up. If there was no demand for coal, or coal workers , it would not have opened.

Coal jobs did come back, and no renewables are no where near as cost effective as more dependable fossil fuel alternatives.
 

I understood your point that had the Republicans nominated a more reasonable candidate, they wouldn't risk losing centrists. My response may have came out wrong or jumbled. I believe American politics is at an inflection point due to demographic changes, low approval for both parties, and just an anti-establishment air. I think Democrats are facing an identity crisis. Things that are cardinal sins to people on the right, like single-payer healthcare, are in fact moderate positions to the rest of the world. I think that the American electorate is waking up to this. And if the Democrats are to have success, I would run unapolegtically on a single-payer platform. Something the Democrats are too far to the right to do.

And I believe that a strong progressive can run and beat a Rubio or Kasich at a national level. So, believe me I understand you and value your thoughts, but, I'm not in complete agreement with them.
 

You should review the McGovern campaign of 1972. No Dem in the US will have the advantage of running against Theresa May.
 
Had HRC won, it would not have been opened up. If there was no demand for coal, or coal workers , it would not have opened.

Coal jobs did come back, and no renewables are no where near as cost effective as more dependable fossil fuel alternatives.
There is demand for coal but due to mechanization the industry uses far fewer workers. The entire coal industry employs fewer people than Arby’s



Forbes: Solar Employs More People In U.S. Electricity Generation Than Oil, Coal And Gas Combined

John Oliver: it’s time for Trump to stop lying to coal miners (Video)

 
Last edited:
How do you figure that turning over control of 1/6th our economy yo the gov is a moderate position? That seems like a drastic solution.

Thats like me saying congress should pass a law requiring everyone to own a gun is a moderate position.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 




I should clarify something so you feel understood. The original argument was Clinton not losing centrists by moving left, because she was facing Trump. However, if the Republicans had nominated someone more reasonable, Clinton may not have had the advantage of holding onto centrists, had the centrists had an option on the right.
 
A day after the election, Democrats are left with the bitter hope of another tighter-than-usual margin, still searching for a contest where anti-Trump energy and flush campaign coffers actually add up to victory.
I think it was the "anti-Trumpism" that lost them the race.
Despite their remarks now on the insignificance of this race in Georgia, Democrats invested heavily, this was very important to them.
That movement to impeach Trump seems increasingly impossible.
This race did present two clashing archetypes, the funding and rhetoric made it into a national contest.
And the people in Georgia support this view (like probably more than just a few outside the liberal bubble). Also do note Trump won here by just 1%, yesterday's special election shows how, despite drooping popularity ratings (according to the polls), more people support his policies than when he got elected.
 
How do you figure that turning over control of 1/6th our economy yo the gov is a moderate position? That seems like a drastic solution.

Thats like me saying congress should pass a law requiring everyone to own a gun is a moderate position.

PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

The idea that the government, through regulation, requires that private individuals purchase private policies from private insurance companies is, "a government takeover," is absurd on its face.
 
Imo the single biggest blunder for clinton was getting caught on mic calling gop voters deplorables. She had plemty of baggage to begin with but that was very insulting and a huge turn off for many in the middle.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Greetings, bubba. :2wave:

So Rachel came up with an unusual "aha" comment about the weather to explain the loss? :lamo At least it wasn't one of the same old, same old explanations we've become accustomed to hearing! :no:

You should have seen it, Pol.
It was the same just-got-kicked-in-the-cullions look she had Nov 9, 2016.
 

Yup, they threw everything they had at this, and are trying to spin it into a postive.. Lol

They didnt spend 22 millon to come in second
 
Yup, they threw everything they had at this, and are trying to spin it into a postive.. Lol

They didnt spend 22 millon to come in second
The right was taught a lesson when their voters allowed dems to sweep all 3 houses. Now they are being given a 2nd chance. We will see if they blow it. Dems will get their 2nd chance too its just a question of when. Public sentiment seems to suggest we are not ready to revisit tjeir brand of leadership yet. They need to run moderates.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Republicans can also now breathe a sigh of relief with the knowledge that they can still win in the kind of affluent, educated districts that often favor Democrats (even with a president who has divided voters in their own party).
This is something lefties overlook when they highlight how Republican Georgia has long been.
Spending on the race reached at least $57 million, nearly twice the previous record, according to the Center for Responsive Politics watchdog group.
And this spending was disproportionately by Ossof's campaign, which took in far more money from outside the State than from within.
Despite spending more than $30 million, Ossoff lost the district by a wider margin than Democrat Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election.
Democrats look to future after big loss in Georgia election | Reuters
Not only that, but Handel won by more than Trump did, one would sensibly conclude the constituents here are not just more Republican, but also less Democrat than when the last campaign.
 

When Obama ran for a Congressional seat in Illinois he lost to the founder of the Black Panthers. Rush cleaned his clock!
 

The industry has been mechanized for some time.
Job stealing robots didnt just appear out of the blue to take coal jobs away.

That said coal workers are going back to work, and until renewables get their **** together thats a good thing.

And your " more renwables jobs than fossil fuel jobs " narrative has been debunked.

Its counts any and every worker with even a tenuous connection to Solar and renwables while it only counts workers who are directly involved with fossil fuel extraction

Im all for renewable technology, but not for Govt imposing a susbstandard technology on its populace.

Germany just voted to end almost all renwable subsisidies while theyre starting up numerous new coal fired plants every year.

Im not saying the tech will never get to the point where it can compete without massive Govt and consumer subsidies, but ts not ready now.
 
You should have seen it, Pol.
It was the same just-got-kicked-in-the-cullions look she had Nov 9, 2016.

Cullions. Heh. You, you, you regressive, you. Now you're getting downright feudal. What's next? Merkin hats?
 
Liberals stand for something too. They stand for Large Corporate Banks and escalating wars overseas that average Americans are expected to fight and die in.
 
Yup, they threw everything they had at this, and are trying to spin it into a postive.. Lol

They didnt spend 22 millon to come in second

They sure have spent a lot of money lately not to come in second.

As of July 31, 2016, Hillary Clinton had spent $13.97 for every vote she received in the 2016 primaries.
As of July 31, 2016, Donald Trump had spent $5.19 for every vote he received in the 2016 primaries.
How much did each presidential candidate spend per vote? | WTOP

I imagine the ratios for the general election aren't all that much different.

Even the low end is obscene when you think how much good public servants could do with all that money other than spend it on an election.

But yes, the Democrats had it all--the momentum, the money, the media, and all that anti-Trump sentiment going for them. And they still lost. Not just the general election, but four contested special elections since.

The weather? Really?
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…