Link = BBC News - Paris attacks: Pope Francis says freedom of speech has limits
"You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." ~ Pope Francis
This was the 2nd time in my entire life that I was truly proud of the Catholic Church and in particular proud of the Pope.
So finally there is a real Man in Pope Francis who speaks boldly and honestly, and on top of that he speaks like a true Christian by having compassion and consideration for other people.
The freedom of speech does not mean some right to throw around provocative insults at any one.
And his defense is for the sake of persecuted Muslim people which is taking Pope Francis into the territory of being a true Holy Man.
Before this the high moral ground was only being promoted by the Muslims and the powerful religion of Islam.
My one other time of pride for Catholicism was when the Church defied President Clinton 1993 pushing abortion onto the rest of the world, LINK.
I'm saying that other religious groups don't kill you if you're not one of them.
Free speech is an illusion. If a person takes a position on certain controversies, publishes their opinion, they can be incarcerated. Holocaust denial is an example, and I seem to recall that France is among the first and foremost to incarcerate people for this. Even when the deniers are only explaining themselves.
It is peculiar that you fail to explain whatever that "good reason" might be, as if you must think it is so obvious that there is no need for any explanation - well FYI - it is not, because especially with those French publishers there is no justifiable reason for their dirty hateful and provocative trash to be protected by the law.There is a good reason why the First Amendment affirms and protects freedom of the press as well as freedom of speech.
That is just exaggerating the reality as it is taking it way too far.So, really, what you're arguing for is the legitimacy of the heckler's veto—basically, that anyone can legitimately have the use of government force used to suppress the expression of anything he doesn't like, by threatening to commit acts of violence if that expression is allowed and unpunished.
I can not believe that kind of hateful mentality is in the majority, and in due time then decent people will suppress the hate speech and rightly so.
At least now the Muslims and Islam are no longer alone on the higher moral ground, as now we have Pope Francis to share in this call for decency in our ignorant society.
Several European countries have such laws. France enacted the law beginning around 1990, others soon followed suit.actually it is Austria.
That is not true, not accurate.They find anyone who isn't Muslim to be insulting. Are you saying we should all be Muslims now?
Lots of people believe that way because that hateful propaganda has been shoved down our throats for a long long time, but it is not accurate and is not true.I think Mohammad was a bandit that did nothing but terrorize innocent people and slaughtered 1000's of people simply because they didn't want to follow his religion.
there how is that for ya? what are you going to do about it? nothing why? look at the 1st amendment.
The cartoons were not criticizing the criminals as the publishers were insulting decent people.Decent people don't walk into a building and start shooting people from making a cartoon of Mohammad.
That is not true, not accurate.
The fact is that millions of Muslims live peacefully in France and millions more live here in the USA and Muslims live peacefully in every Country throughout the entire world as it is a huge and powerful religion.
We have Muslims who are Doctors and they treat us and they are not insulted by us being non-Muslim, and Muslim cab drivers who are not insulted by non Muslims, and people of Islam are mingled all through society and there are many Mosque throughout the land, and for the most part they are extremely decent people who actually reject crimes and drugs and immorality as it is a really strict and wholesome religion. This is why so many people are converting to Islam because right now Islam is the moral giant in this world.
Plus in fact I have read the Holy Qur'an several times and it specifically repeats that they view Judaism and Christianity as their sister religions, and no where at no time do we ever find Muslims disrespecting our religions because in Islam that is a unarguable taboo.
They will fight back against Christians and Jews and rightly so, and they will argue religious doctrine yes certainly, but insulting the religions is totally a Western thing being done.
In the French case it was not an insane reaction as it was a determined act of retaliation and of enforcing right against wrong.An insane reaction to speech does not make the speech unacceptable. That religious people can't handle criticism is an indictment of the religion, not of the criticism.
Nobody said to repeal free speech as it just needs to have certain limits, as in hate speech needs to be against the law.This statement of the Pope is no more than saying do unto others, most certainly not a call for the repeal of free speech.
In the French case it was not an insane reaction as it was a determined act of retaliation and of enforcing right against wrong.
And the hate speech (you call criticism) was directed against the 1.6 billion Muslims, so hate speech against religion has a right to protection, see HERE.
The religious bigots promoting their hate speech have no right to any legal protection or any kind of protection.
If you walk down any street in the middle of any town in the entire world with a sign promoting hatred then the common citizens will shut you down, and the French publishers were hiding away feeling protected with their ignorant hatred spewing out and that was their cowardice.
========================================
Nobody said to repeal free speech as it just needs to have certain limits, as in hate speech needs to be against the law.
The Pope made that clear too, see the OP, or this:
Link = BBC News - Paris attacks: Pope Francis says freedom of speech has limits
"You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." ~ Pope Francis
I say you are either missing or just ignoring the reality that in France the use of assassination was the last resort after a long series of non violent efforts.But even so, it is not rational nor justified nor allowable to react to mockery with violence. That's when this goes one toke over the line. That is the act you may legitimately use government force against.
Lots of people believe that way because that hateful propaganda has been shoved down our throats for a long long time, but it is not accurate and is not true.
As an individual being that ignorant is not such a big deal, but Newspapers and magazines and TV reports are expected to be accurate and true in their reports and when those places preach such lies then they can often be held accountable by law, and the point of the laws about hate speech are meant to be a legal weapon against such lies and hate speech, see link HERE.
The cartoons were not criticizing the criminals as the publishers were insulting decent people.
If the publishers were criticizing or mocking the criminal activity then that would be acceptable, but no, they are degrading and insulting the religion of decent people and that is intolerable.
Several European countries have such laws. France enacted the law beginning around 1990, others soon followed suit.
(looked it up...)
I remember reading the news at that time, thinking it wrong that they should silence the deniers through prosecution on the basis that some words, ideas, pictures (pamphlets advocating that 6 million didn't really die, etc.) are harmful to society and therefore criminal.
But then, perhaps they are.
My view is, if we choose to adopt hate speech laws at all then the ridicule of religion should be included in that.
You equated dissent and critique of Islam to yelling fire in a theater, trying to see if you think that because of the irrationality of a few, we should bend to their desires. And if so, how far that should then go.
The hate-speech aspect has nothing to do with the format of cartoons, but the information it conveys to the public.please tell me how a cartoon of mohammod did any of the below and what group other than muslims reacted.
drawing a cartoon of the man is not considered hate speech.
The thing is that in this Country the USA - that our laws really do support my position and what was said by the Pope - that religious bigotry is against the law.I take great pleasure that the law in this country has nothing in common with your vision of free speech.
Your hate filled claims are NOT historical fact and far from it.actually it isn't propaganda as much as it is historical fact. you don't even know what you arguing against and just making base assumptions.
It is a sad reality that so many who claim to be Atheist are also so full of hatred and bigotry.if you and the pope had their way almost all
of the athiests in this country would be locked up in prison for hate speech.
I certainly do not condemn those actions against the French publisher.yet I don't see you condemning those actions.
Those French publishers were not innocent - they were far from being innocent.I find that hate speech against innocent morale people. you are the very thing that you hate.
please tell me how a cartoon of mohammod did any of the below and what group other than muslims reacted.
The thing is that in this Country the USA - that our laws really do support my position and what was said by the Pope - that religious bigotry is against the law.
It is a sad reality that so many who claim to be Atheist are also so full of hatred and bigotry.
It is peculiar that you fail to explain whatever that "good reason" might be, as if you must think it is so obvious that there is no need for any explanation - well FYI - it is not, because especially with those French publishers there is no justifiable reason for their to be protected by the law.
As such the French gov failed in its duty, and the publishers asked for what they got, and the assassins payed with their own lives.
Congratulations, in a simple OP you have confirmed that both Islam and Christianity view special limitations on Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression even showing support for the notion by a "high moral ground." A call for Theocracy to determine what is off-limits to criticism and within the confines of religion defining what is and is not hate speech. Well done, that undermined just about every principle this nation was founded on and went a great length in validation of responding to hate speech in the most terrible way. Censorship and oppression.
That is not a call of a "real man" or someone of moral high ground... just a call for forced obedience by determining what is off-limits simply because you do not like what was said. Society just stepped backwards with this brilliance.
The thing is that in this Country the USA - that our laws really do support my position and what was said by the Pope - that religious bigotry is against the law.
I agree, for the most part with this, but don't think the Pope or the OP speaks for all Christians. Neither speak for me.
While true, I cannot dismiss the position the Pope has and the numbers who hear what he has to say. The precedence is something troubling, that freedoms have limits when it comes to talking about religion. That is a major problem.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?