Record solar use keeping AC on

[soap box]

If we've met before, you'll know I'm not often going to say the state Legislature did something right quickly. Austin got something right. Diversification.

I've seen many denials that batteries will work or be worth it. Anything from birds to subsidies was an excuse to make us seem helpless to change the global atmosphere. The claims ranged from solar panels in a hailstorm to cancer, from claiming no change is possible to the prevailing understanding is all wrong. The conclusion is that no green energy is a viable alternative or that no green energy is cost effective.

That's no longer a public policy delay. That's a partisan answer to a policy question. Texas is living it now , like Saturday.




If you see the live page it will show a kink in the line about 8pm in most days in hot sunny weather. That gap was less than the amount being supplied by solar energy stored in batteries and wind at dusk. A week ago, renewables met 55% of demand.

Houston Chronicle, Sunday August 3
Chris Tomlinson
Record solar use keeping AC on

"Large scale batteries set a record by discharging 7,000 megawatts of power."

"They are the cheapest forms of new electricity, even without subsidies."

Subscription only

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/texas-grid-electricity-solar-battery-20792617.php

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Rapid build out of solar power all across the world.

Solar is now 41% cheaper than fossil fuels, UN report shows

The global switch to renewable energy has passed a “positive tipping point”, according to two United Nations reports released on Tuesday.

www.euronews.com

While Republican politicians care more about the money they get from fossil fuel companies.

The fossil fuel industry spent $219 million to elect the new U.S. government » Yale Climate Connections

Most of that money went to Republicans.

yaleclimateconnections.org

Trump hates wind power. But these Texas Republicans are embracing it

Wind turbines have become a financial lifeline in rural areas, but state legislators are now targeting them

www.theguardian.com

Red America states making money from green energy

Wyoming is the second windiest state, after Nebraska. It’s obvious why the wind power industry is investing $10 billion there. And it’s hard to see why any state politician would oppose this. But some have. Wyoming is one of those fossil-fuel producing states in which so-called conservatives...

www.ironmountaindailynews.com

 

[longview]

If we've met before, you'll know I'm not often going to say the state Legislature did something right quickly. Austin got something right. Diversification.

I've seen many denials that batteries will work or be worth it. Anything from birds to subsidies was an excuse to make us seem helpless to change the global atmosphere. The claims ranged from solar panels in a hailstorm to cancer, from claiming no change is possible to the prevailing understanding is all wrong. The conclusion is that no green energy is a viable alternative or that no green energy is cost effective.

That's no longer a public policy delay. That's a partisan answer to a policy question. Texas is living it now , like Saturday.

View attachment 67583143


If you see the live page it will show a kink in the line about 8pm in most days in hot sunny weather. That gap was less than the amount being supplied by solar energy stored in batteries and wind at dusk. A week ago, renewables met 55% of demand.

Houston Chronicle, Sunday August 3
Chris Tomlinson
Record solar use keeping AC on

"Large scale batteries set a record by discharging 7,000 megawatts of power."

"They are the cheapest forms of new electricity, even without subsidies."

Subscription only

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/texas-grid-electricity-solar-battery-20792617.php

It is not that grid scale batteries cannot play a role in reliable electricity, they can and do.
What batteries cannot do, is fill the necessary role to allow non dispatchable solar power to be used
as dispatchable electricity.
Texas: A high stakes frontier for US battery energy storage systems

Short-duration BESS still dominate the fleet, but market signals like the Dispatchable Reliability Reserve Service (DRRS) and Effective Load Carrying Capability (ELCC) metrics are pushing developers toward longer-duration systems.

A good example is a modern data facility, they do everything they can to assure grid reliability, but
have both a battery UPS, and a motor generator. The UPS's batteries keep everything running until the motor generator
comes on. This is how batteries are used now on the grid, short duration stability.

To move Solar from a basically 10 hour supply to 24 hour coverage, is a whole different scale of energy storage.
To optimize the supply vs demand, we would really need seasonal energy storage, the ability to move
Spring and Fall Surpluses to Summer and Winter loads.

 

[soap box]

It is not that grid scale batteries cannot play a role in reliable electricity, they can and do.
What batteries cannot do, is fill the necessary role to allow non dispatchable solar power to be used
as dispatchable electricity.
Texas: A high stakes frontier for US battery energy storage systems

Short-duration BESS still dominate the fleet, but market signals like the Dispatchable Reliability Reserve Service (DRRS) and Effective Load Carrying Capability (ELCC) metrics are pushing developers toward longer-duration systems.

A good example is a modern data facility, they do everything they can to assure grid reliability, but
have both a battery UPS, and a motor generator. The UPS's batteries keep everything running until the motor generator
comes on. This is how batteries are used now on the grid, short duration stability.

Yep.

To move Solar from a basically 10 hour supply to 24 hour coverage, is a whole different scale of energy storage.

That's not the problem at all. That itself is not the problem.

To optimize the supply vs demand, we would really need seasonal energy storage, the ability to move
Spring and Fall Surpluses to Summer and Winter loads.

And we will, and it's good , and there's no reason to try stopping it.

 

[longview]

Yep.


That's not the problem at all. That itself is not the problem.



And we will, and it's good , and there's no reason to try stopping it.

The most likely path to seasonal energy storge is something the left here strongly disagrees with,
and that is to follow how nature stores energy, hydrocarbons.

Batteries can store power for a few days, but tend to loose 1% per day, so would not be suitable for
a 90 day storage.

 

[soap box]

The most likely path to seasonal energy storge is something the left here strongly disagrees with,
and that is to follow how nature stores energy, hydrocarbons.

Batteries can store power for a few days, but tend to loose 1% per day, so would not be suitable for
a 90 day storage.

And it's working quite well already, and it will only get better. There's no reason to oppose this.

Why would it be a problem current batteries only have a 90 day storage. Is that such a problem that we stop all green energy? Or should we barge forward? Should we surrender or go forward?

 

[longview]

And it's working quite well already, and it will only get better. There's no reason to oppose this.

Why would it be a problem current batteries only have a 90 day storage. Is that such a problem that we stop all green energy? Or should we barge forward? Should we surrender or go forward?

Solar has a real chance, Wind I think will be too costly in the long run, the signs are already there,
people just don't want to admit it.
Avangrid asks to renegotiate contract prices for Mass. offshore wind project
Here is what Avangrid said was too low of a price.

The PPAs are with the Massachusetts distribution utilities of Eversource Energy, National Grid PLC and Unitil Corp. They set an energy price of $47.68/MWh for the first year, which would escalate to $76.22/MWh in the project's 20th year, according to state filings. And they set renewable energy credit prices at $11.92/REC for the first year, escalating to $19.06/REC in the 20th year.

With an opening price guarantee of $0596 per kWh, increasing to $0.095 per kWh in year 20.
Average wholesale prices are between 4 and 5 cents per kWh, and they are saying they cannot profitably
operate the wind farm at between 6 and 9.5 cents per kWh.

We are barging forward, but we should take a realistic approach, and leverage our resources.
The goal is sustainable energy, where everyone alive can live a first world lifestyle should they choose to.
Solar has a poor duty cycle, but grid scale energy storage can solve that, Wind in it's current form,
I think will be too costly to compete.

 

[soap box]

Solar has a real chance, Wind I think will be too costly in the long run, the signs are already there,
people just don't want to admit it.
Avangrid asks to renegotiate contract prices for Mass. offshore wind project
Here is what Avangrid said was too low of a price.

With an opening price guarantee of $0596 per kWh, increasing to $0.095 per kWh in year 20.
Average wholesale prices are between 4 and 5 cents per kWh, and they are saying they cannot profitably
operate the wind farm at between 6 and 9.5 cents per kWh.

We are barging forward, but we should take a realistic approach, and leverage our resources.

The state Legislature eventually adopted a plan of diversity. If anyone wants to know the weather in Longview, Texas they should skip the news and get the forecast from ercot. The plan is working. This is one case where the Republicans in Austin should let the private sector go.

When you said,
"we should take a realistic approach"

I don't think it's a "we", instead it's investors and private sector affairs. The public policy is about running the grid and less about generation. Since future demands will increase, green is already making up the difference. It's diversity. (Public policy also includes running off the roof top solar scammers too, but that's the AG)

The goal is sustainable energy, where everyone alive can live a first world lifestyle should they choose to.
Solar has a poor duty cycle, but grid scale energy storage can solve that, Wind in it's current form,
I think will be too costly to compete.

As long as folks don't oppose it, I'm fine.

Do you think the state legislature is wrong about this?

 

[longview]

The state Legislature eventually adopted a plan of diversity. If anyone wants to know the weather in Longview, Texas they should skip the news and get the forecast from ercot. The plan is working. This is one case where the Republicans in Austin should let the private sector go.

When you said,
"we should take a realistic approach"

I don't think it's a "we", instead it's investors and private sector affairs. The public policy is about running the grid and less about generation. Since future demands will increase, green is already making up the difference. It's diversity. (Public policy also includes running off the roof top solar scammers too, but that's the AG)



As long as folks don't oppose it, I'm fine.

Do you think the state legislature is wrong about this?

I think the plan is working, but the grid is balancing generation with demand.
Non dispatchable sources like wind and to some extent Solar can disrupt the reliable supply.
Consider that the Winter 2021 outage was in a small part due to double dipping on our generation reserves.
We have peaking power plants that sit and wait to pick up excess load.
Those same power plants are also used to supplement the poor duty cycle of wind and solar.
In 2021 ECROT had a condition where the excess load increased, at the same time as the supply from wind dropped.
That caused an avalanche effect as rolling brownouts took more and more peaking plants offline.
The initial failure was using the peaking supply as a backup supply.

 

[soap box]

I think the plan is working, but the grid is balancing generation with demand.
Non dispatchable sources like wind and to some extent Solar can disrupt the reliable supply.

And yet it's working fine.

Consider that the Winter 2021 outage was in a small part due to double dipping on our generation reserves.
We have peaking power plants that sit and wait to pick up excess load.

And yet solar and wind are working to contribute.

Those same power plants are also used to supplement the poor duty cycle of wind and solar.
In 2021 ECROT had a condition where the excess load increased, at the same time as the supply from wind dropped.

And it's working well now, today.

That caused an avalanche effect as rolling brownouts took more and more peaking plants offline.
The initial failure was using the peaking supply as a backup supply.

And solar and wind are contributing to the grid right now. And batteries are bridging the gap, to keep the AC on.

 

[longview]

And yet it's working fine.


And yet solar and wind are working to contribute.


And it's working well now, today.



And solar and wind are contributing to the grid right now. And batteries are bridging the gap, to keep the AC on.

And it is great that they work when they work, but non dispatchable sources of electricity cannot
be depended on all the time. They are good for offsetting some of the load, at peak times, but
the balancing act is more complex. Yes it is working, but we still need better energy storage to move to the next step.

 

[soap box]

And it is great that they work when they work, but non dispatchable sources of electricity cannot
be depended on all the time. They are good for offsetting some of the load, at peak times, but
the balancing act is more complex. Yes it is working, but we still need better energy storage to move to the next step.

As long as folks don't oppose it, I'm fine.

 

[longview]

As long as folks don't oppose it, I'm fine.

I do not think we are on different sides of the page.
Wind and solar are great when leveraged properly.
I think wind has some issues that will be difficult to move forward profitably, but Solar
has some real potential.
At some point Home solar surplus electricity will decrease in price to just below the wholesale price.
At that point, I could see the oil companies scooping up all the surplus to store the energy as transport fuels,
or as Un Natural gas to be used in combined cycle power plants.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

And it's working quite well already, and it will only get better. There's no reason to oppose this.

Why would it be a problem current batteries only have a 90 day storage. Is that such a problem that we stop all green energy? Or should we barge forward? Should we surrender or go forward?

Yes batteries are becoming more and more competitive.

Solar electricity every hour of every day is here and it changes everything | Ember

Batteries are now cheap enough to unleash solar energy’s full potential, getting as close as 97% of the way to delivering constant electricity supply 24 hours across 365 days cost-effectively in the sunniest places.

ember-energy.org

While also advancement in many other types of storage that can complement traditional batteries.

Swiss 'water battery' boosts Europe's energy storage plans – DW – 11/30/2022

A Swiss company has built what is being called a giant water battery deep under the Alps that provides an energy storage capacity equivalent to 400,000 electric car batteries. It could be a game changer.

www.dw.com

Decarbonizing heavy industry with thermal batteries

MIT spinout Electrified Thermal Solutions developed an electrically conductive firebrick that can store heat for hours and discharge it by heating air or gas to temperatures high enough to power the most demanding industrial applications. The bricks could help hard-to-decarbonize sectors utilize...

news.mit.edu

Using liquid air for grid-scale energy storage

Liquid air energy storage could be the lowest-cost solution for ensuring a reliable power supply on a future grid dominated by carbon-free yet intermittent energy sources, according to a new model from MIT researchers.

news.mit.edu

World’s largest sand battery starts slashing emissions in Finnish town

The 15 metres wide battery can store a month's heat demand in summer - how does it work?

www.euronews.com

 

[Volunteer]

Summer heat and humidity finally caught up with my rooftop solar array's ability to provide cooling. Last month's utility bill showed a $32 energy charge. That's more than one dollar per day for air conditioning!

 

[longview]

Summer heat and humidity finally caught up with my rooftop solar array's ability to provide cooling. Last month's utility bill showed a $32 energy charge. That's more than one dollar per day for air conditioning!

Can you tell if it was too much battery drain at night or demand exceeding the load in the daytime?

 

[Volunteer]

Can you tell if it was too much battery drain at night or demand exceeding the load in the daytime?

We are currently net metering. In July we consumed more electricity than we produced, hence, a bill from the utility.

 

[soap box]

Summer heat and humidity finally caught up with my rooftop solar array's ability to provide cooling. Last month's utility bill showed a $32 energy charge. That's more than one dollar per day for air conditioning!

That's a great example, congrats! I believe if every homeowner in Texas had panels we wouldn't worry about the grid.

 

[Steve Case]

If we've met before, you'll know I'm not often going to say the state Legislature did something right quickly. Austin got something right. Diversification.

I've seen many denials that batteries will work or be worth it. Anything from birds to subsidies was an excuse to make us seem helpless to change the global atmosphere. The claims ranged from solar panels in a hailstorm to cancer, from claiming no change is possible to the prevailing understanding is all wrong. The conclusion is that no green energy is a viable alternative or that no green energy is cost effective.

That's no longer a public policy delay. That's a partisan answer to a policy question. Texas is living it now , like Saturday.

View attachment 67583143


If you see the live page it will show a kink in the line about 8pm in most days in hot sunny weather. That gap was less than the amount being supplied by solar energy stored in batteries and wind at dusk. A week ago, renewables met 55% of demand.

Houston Chronicle, Sunday August 3
Chris Tomlinson
Record solar use keeping AC on

"Large scale batteries set a record by discharging 7,000 megawatts of power."

"They are the cheapest forms of new electricity, even without subsidies."

Subscription only

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/texas-grid-electricity-solar-battery-20792617.php

From your original post:

"Anything from birds to subsidies was an excuse to make us seem helpless to change the global atmosphere."

See section 2 paragraph 1 below:

Amendment 28

Section 1

Congress shall make no law to regulate,
tax, sequester or license atmospheric
carbon dioxide.

The right of the people to freely emit
carbon dioxide into the atmosphere from
any source, from any place at any time
in any amount shall not be interfered with.

Section 2

All activity commercial or private within
the United States and all territory subject
to the jurisdiction thereof for the purposes
of altering climate is prohibited.

The Congress and the several States shall
have concurrent power to enforce this article
by appropriate legislation.

 

[longview]

We are currently net metering. In July we consumed more electricity than we produced, hence, a bill from the utility.

So a positive bill means the solar plus battery capacity were less than the 24 hour demand.

 

[Volunteer]

So a positive bill means the solar plus battery capacity were less than the 24 hour demand.

We don't use the battery day to day. We only use it for back-up during grid failure or sometimes for testing.