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Question to Immigration Supporters - Why is Essentially Unlimited Immigration a Good Thing? (It was for me and my ancestors for example)

JBG

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I will admit to posting some views Right of center, even though I consider myself overall a progressive. What are some good arguments for me to use against right wingers who seem to digest immigration? Simply attacking their support of Donald Trump does not do it. I'm looking for good arguments and need help.

Personally, if it was any other way between 1896 and 1914 I wouldn't be here, for example. Most of what is me would have died in the Czar's army or the Holocaust.
 
I dunno about unlimited immigration but the immigration problem is something that trumpists think is easy to solve when it isnt. Mass deportations usually cause humanitarian crises, family separation snd concentration camps caused humanitarian crises. Why are republicans always avoiding the employers who hire them?
 
I will admit to posting some views Right of center, even though I consider myself overall a progressive. What are some good arguments for me to use against right wingers who seem to digest immigration? Simply attacking their support of Donald Trump does not do it. I'm looking for good arguments and need help.

Personally, if it was any other way between 1896 and 1914 I wouldn't be here, for example. Most of what is me would have died in the Czar's army or the Holocaust.

Who is pushing for "essentially unlimited immigration?" What's the position they're making public and the policies they're 'pushing?'

Need to know their foundations and policies to beetter understand what their issues are. Citations?

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
 
I will admit to posting some views Right of center, even though I consider myself overall a progressive. What are some good arguments for me to use against right wingers who seem to digest immigration? Simply attacking their support of Donald Trump does not do it. I'm looking for good arguments and need help.

Personally, if it was any other way between 1896 and 1914 I wouldn't be here, for example. Most of what is me would have died in the Czar's army or the Holocaust.
You do know the country had a legal immigration policy in the 1800s, right? That immigration law restricting immigration was in-place between 1896 and 1914? And that every successful nation/state has borders with laws regarding legal immigration?

I dont know of anyone that opposes legal immigration. A nations immigration policy should be built on the country's capacity and need.

there has to be a balance between jobs, opportunities, and need. We currently have approx 30-40 million illegal immigrants here...no one really knows. We have massive homeless problems and jobless problems across the country. The border state governors shipping illegal immigrants to blue cities finally woke the left up to the reality of the damage and dangers of illegal immigration. Put simply...a country that does not secure its borders wont long remain a country.
 

The case for immigration​


20180414_OFP020_0.gif


IN HIS novel “Exit West”, Mohsin Hamid describes a world very like our own, but which is suddenly changed by the appearance of mysterious doors. A dark-skinned man falls out of an Australian woman’s wardrobe in Sydney. Filipino women emerge from the back door of a bar into the alleyways of Tokyo. As the incidents multiply and scores of people from poor countries walk through the doors into richer ones, rich-world inhabitants respond with violent resistance. Governments crack down hard on the new arrivals. But it is not long before they are overwhelmed by their sheer number and abandon efforts to repel them. The world settles into an uneasy new equilibrium. Shantytowns emerge on the slopes of San Francisco Bay. Conflicts in war-torn places burn out for want of civilians to kill and exploit.

Mr Hamid’s story comes close to what many advocates of open borders believe the world would look like if people were free to move wherever they wanted: fairer, freer, with more opportunities for a larger number of people. But it also nods to the fears many people have about unfettered migration: uncertainty, disorder, violence. Would such a world be a dream or a nightmare? The answer depends on whom you ask.

Few things have caused citizens in Western liberal democracies more angst in recent years than borders and migration. In the United States, voters chose a president in 2016 who promised to build a wall to stem the flow of migrants from Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America, and who has since sought to ban people from several Muslim-majority countries from travelling to America. In many European countries, right-wing parties have risen to prominence on an anti-immigration platform. Concerns about immigration played a major role in the British vote to leave the European Union in the summer of 2016. When Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, opened her country to hundreds of thousands of refugees from the Syrian war in the summer of 2015, she was applauded for her humanitarian impulse. But two years later, German voters punished her party at the polls for what many now argue was a rash and irresponsible decision. A big share of the vote went to a party that promised strict limits on immigration. So has migration gone too far already? Or would the world be a better place if borders were more open than they are?

Advocates of entirely open borders tend to advance two types of arguments. The first is economic. Opening all borders would make the world instantly richer. Some believe that it could double the world’s GDP. That is because workers become more productive as they move from a poor country to a rich one. They join a labour market with ample capital, efficient firms and a predictable legal system. If they are service workers, they will find richer and better-paying clients. By some estimates, more than two-thirds of a person’s overall wealth is determined by where they live and work.

The second argument for open borders is a moral one. Where someone is born is entirely a matter of chance, so there is no moral justification for compelling people to stay in a poor country. By the same token, those lucky enough to have been born in rich countries have no right to exclude others from their good fortune. Opponents of open borders are not convinced by either of those arguments. Even if the world as a whole were to grow richer thanks to open borders, they say, poorer people in the migrants’ destination countries would suffer. The new arrivals would depress their wages and compete with them for resources such as social housing and unemployment benefits. The welfare states that Western democracies have painstakingly built over the past few decades would collapse under the task of absorbing millions of people ill-suited to local labour markets. Cultural conflicts between natives and immigrants would before long cause violent clashes, threatening social stability.

The Economist
 
I will admit to posting some views Right of center, even though I consider myself overall a progressive. What are some good arguments for me to use against right wingers who seem to digest immigration? Simply attacking their support of Donald Trump does not do it. I'm looking for good arguments and need help.

Personally, if it was any other way between 1896 and 1914 I wouldn't be here, for example. Most of what is me would have died in the Czar's army or the Holocaust.
A healthy economy depends on a growing marketplace. Immigration helps that happen.
 
I don't think we need unlimited immigration. I do think we need enough immigration such that the net population increase in the US (birth rates + immigration) is around 3%. We need as much quality human capital as we can get.
 
Tell them we need immigrants more than ever or our economy will go down the drain because it's true. As a matter of fact, immigrants and migrants are the reason our economy did better than anyone else recovering from the pandemic.

What Trump suggests will be terrible for the economy.
 

The case for immigration​


20180414_OFP020_0.gif


IN HIS novel “Exit West”, Mohsin Hamid describes a world very like our own, but which is suddenly changed by the appearance of mysterious doors. A dark-skinned man falls out of an Australian woman’s wardrobe in Sydney. Filipino women emerge from the back door of a bar into the alleyways of Tokyo. As the incidents multiply and scores of people from poor countries walk through the doors into richer ones, rich-world inhabitants respond with violent resistance. Governments crack down hard on the new arrivals. But it is not long before they are overwhelmed by their sheer number and abandon efforts to repel them. The world settles into an uneasy new equilibrium. Shantytowns emerge on the slopes of San Francisco Bay. Conflicts in war-torn places burn out for want of civilians to kill and exploit.

Mr Hamid’s story comes close to what many advocates of open borders believe the world would look like if people were free to move wherever they wanted: fairer, freer, with more opportunities for a larger number of people. But it also nods to the fears many people have about unfettered migration: uncertainty, disorder, violence. Would such a world be a dream or a nightmare? The answer depends on whom you ask.

Few things have caused citizens in Western liberal democracies more angst in recent years than borders and migration. In the United States, voters chose a president in 2016 who promised to build a wall to stem the flow of migrants from Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America, and who has since sought to ban people from several Muslim-majority countries from travelling to America. In many European countries, right-wing parties have risen to prominence on an anti-immigration platform. Concerns about immigration played a major role in the British vote to leave the European Union in the summer of 2016. When Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, opened her country to hundreds of thousands of refugees from the Syrian war in the summer of 2015, she was applauded for her humanitarian impulse. But two years later, German voters punished her party at the polls for what many now argue was a rash and irresponsible decision. A big share of the vote went to a party that promised strict limits on immigration. So has migration gone too far already? Or would the world be a better place if borders were more open than they are?

Advocates of entirely open borders tend to advance two types of arguments. The first is economic. Opening all borders would make the world instantly richer. Some believe that it could double the world’s GDP. That is because workers become more productive as they move from a poor country to a rich one. They join a labour market with ample capital, efficient firms and a predictable legal system. If they are service workers, they will find richer and better-paying clients. By some estimates, more than two-thirds of a person’s overall wealth is determined by where they live and work.

The second argument for open borders is a moral one. Where someone is born is entirely a matter of chance, so there is no moral justification for compelling people to stay in a poor country. By the same token, those lucky enough to have been born in rich countries have no right to exclude others from their good fortune. Opponents of open borders are not convinced by either of those arguments. Even if the world as a whole were to grow richer thanks to open borders, they say, poorer people in the migrants’ destination countries would suffer. The new arrivals would depress their wages and compete with them for resources such as social housing and unemployment benefits. The welfare states that Western democracies have painstakingly built over the past few decades would collapse under the task of absorbing millions of people ill-suited to local labour markets. Cultural conflicts between natives and immigrants would before long cause violent clashes, threatening social stability.

The Economist
Thank you for presenting that. I may not agree with all of that and I may do a "point by point" later but I want to think first.
 
I don't think we need unlimited immigration. I do think we need enough immigration such that the net population increase in the US (birth rates + immigration) is around 3%. We need as much quality human capital as we can get.
Tell them we need immigrants more than ever or our economy will go down the drain because it's true. As a matter of fact, immigrants and migrants are the reason our economy did better than anyone else recovering from the pandemic.

What Trump suggests will be terrible for the economy.
The question is, and this is a subset of my OP, should we vet the potential immigrants, or pretty much has an open door?
 
Who is pushing for "essentially unlimited immigration?" What's the position they're making public and the policies they're 'pushing?'

Need to know their foundations and policies to beetter understand what their issues are. Citations?

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
How do uneducated and frequently illiterate immigrants help?
 
The question is, and this is a subset of my OP, should we vet the potential immigrants, or pretty much has an open door?
We already vet immigrants. You mean should we stop doing that?
 
How do uneducated and frequently illiterate immigrants help?

Immigrants: They take jobs that Americans dont/wont. They become more skilled and educated. They build communities. They have kids, their kids get the same educations as citizen's kids. They all contribute. I stress legal because I dont want them abused and taken advantage of. I do want better pathways and stronger screening. I am actually of a pretty strict mind when it comes to illegal immigration tho.

Why not allow in "needed" numbers of screened people that will be immediately ready to work and pay taxes? I also support immigration for skilled workers "in the industries" we need. We should be doing this with the US's interests and needs in mind.

I work in high tech and have worked on very large corporate policy teams that made it clear the US was not producing the talent we need to excel. Our educational system has many flaws...is that positioned to be greatly improved soon?

☮️ 🇺🇸 ☮️
 
You do know the country had a legal immigration policy in the 1800s, right? That immigration law restricting immigration was in-place between 1896 and 1914? And that every successful nation/state has borders with laws regarding legal immigration?

I dont know of anyone that opposes legal immigration. A nations immigration policy should be built on the country's capacity and need.

there has to be a balance between jobs, opportunities, and need. We currently have approx 30-40 million illegal immigrants here...no one really knows. We have massive homeless problems and jobless problems across the country. The border state governors shipping illegal immigrants to blue cities finally woke the left up to the reality of the damage and dangers of illegal immigration. Put simply...a country that does not secure its borders wont long remain a country.
Interesting position- how do you define a secure border???
Immigration policies of the past were very biased- Asians excluded, Italian immigrants highly restricted, hell Catholics in general restricted both in coming in and job opportunities.... :unsure:
Unemployment is very low, what is massive homelessness- rants without statistics are weak. 40 million illegals??? That's less than 8% of the population. Blue Cities up north don't have the federal support for immigrants the border states have, a rather weak argument. Start taking away the federal support system from Abbott, send it up north and see how quickly he howls... ✌️
 
I mean a deal to help this situation that had things in it that i didnt like but y’all killed it.
 
I mean a deal to help this situation that had things in it that i didnt like but y’all killed it.
A deal with amnesties and paths to citizenship was a deal to seal the border? I don't think so
 
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