fault with the logic. I made this point earlier in the thread. i am not against homosexuality, I am against using faulty logic/arguements to argue for it.
I think that we have a better understanding now, than was the case in the old and new testament era, that being gay is literally in the genes. And, I don't think God makes mistakes. I think that Oscar nailed it when he stated that it's God's job to rule on sin, not humanity's. You can disagree like hell about someone's lifestyle, but ultimately, it's between them and God.
In all truthfulness, I think Christians would be better served by reaching out and loving the gay community than by completely alienating them. I can't believe that's God's will for this situation.
Beyond that, you, and other believers, sin daily. Sin does not, in fact, separate believers from God, because Christ is the advocate. I'm a once-saved, always-saved girl, because I believe that is a scriptural concept.
Gay Christians are answerable to God, not to me--or you. They have the opportunity to deal directly with God, and the holy spirit, and if they are sinning---GOD IS BIG ENOUGH TO HANDLE THAT JOB. He does not require your assistance.
As far as gays who aren't Christians--they are alienated, not reached, by these tactics. This whole "homosexuality is a sin" schtick is all about making believers feel self-righteous and not at all about being Christlike or sharing the message of the hope and love to be found in Christ. It's about condemnation, not crucifixion.
Who cares if homosexuality is a sin? There are lots of sins. You sin multiple times EVERY SINGLE DAY. But, sin and death have no power over you, because of Christ.
God still loves you, and he is constantly reaching out to you, even though you sin. And, because of that, you change.
That's the message of Christ. It's that simple.
So you think we understand better than those who literally talked and walked with God? OK.
Now I do believe it is between them and God, but we are commanded by God to live by example. Being sexually immoral is not doing that.
Being gay is not literally in the genes at all. Please point out the scientific study that found this elusive gay gene?
Many gay reach out programs exist in the Christian community...
MySpace - Gay Christian Outreach - 38 - Male - SPRINGFIELD, MISSOURI - myspace.com/gaychristians
Christian couple create gay outreach group | ECWR Community
Search - gay christian outreach
You cannot continually sin and expect to remain saved. At some point you are obviously not repentent and that is what eventually seperates people from God.
So you don't see incest as immoral? If you did, you would have to say that homosexuality is a sin as well to avoid being branded a hypocrite.
Maybe it has something to do with the absurd fact that Christians can attack people through their beliefs all day long, but if anyone challenges those beliefs then it is unforgivable
How nice it must be that you can attack other people's character through your God but if anyone questions the character of your God, then that is just downright uncivil and trolling!
Peh, it is absolutely pathetic and it is for that exact reason I have such contempt for the religion.
It's the truth, from your perspective. However, you're not god, much as that might pain you.
I think there are a lot of things that we understand better, scientifically speaking, ABSOLUTELY, than the people of ancient times. And this is one of them. The people who literally walked and talked with God, for instance, thought mental illness was demon possession. They thought illness was a result of sin. They thought the stars rotated around the earth. They believed the earth was flat. They believed in stoning adulterers.
Do you think we should go back to that level of understanding about the world?
Again, that is between them and God.
I've known enough gay people to understand that NO ONE would choose to be gay. NO ONE.
People cope with it, they learn to be happy, they survive, but there is a reason that the gay suicide rate is 3 times higher than the straight one. It's a hard, hard life, and that's mainly because of the people who tell them that they were made wrong.
Those gay outreach programs are based not on telling people about the love of Christ, but trying to convince them, yet again, that they were made improperly and should not be who they are.
Really. You've mastered the art of not sinning? Did you sin today, BD?
I hope God didn't give up on you.
So, two men loving one another, or two women, results in death, pain and sorrow.
I'm sorry that you have such a distorted and negative view of the deity that you call a loving God.
So many Christians see their faith as a religion of "no," when in reality, if you look at Christ's teaching, it is really a religion of "yes."
It is my sincere belief that Christ came specifically to replace the failed system of legalism, rules and empty meaningless religion with something real. Don't you get it? The rules had already failed to create righteousness.
Let me put it like this. Every single gay person you encounter, whether they are online or in real life, is really Jesus in diguise.
Are they strangers that you're taking in? Are they prisoners that you're visiting? Are you taking your faith in Christ, and translating it into real, loving service of other human beings?
If you can't love gays and lesbians, and I mean REALLY love them...treat them with dignity, kindness, respect, affection, support and caring, without judging them...how can you possibly claim to love Jesus Christ?
Like I said...in my view, you are missing the most important message that Jesus Christ came to bring you.
secondly, Christianity does not attack people; it recognizes actions as sinful. a distinction that you and Catz seem either unable or unwilling to acknowledge.
Christianity totally attacks people. Just because you deem it "sin" does not take away from the fact that you are telling people their behavior is wrong and that you are comparing them to people who genuinely harm others like murderers. The only reason you can get away with it is you claim that you are just acting as a proxy for your God.
Well I can do that as well.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) says that it is "bigotry" to judge gay people because they sleep with people of the same sex. I'm just the FSM's dedicated follower, but I recognize that you are a bigot. Of course you can't get angry at me because I'm just following what the FSM says. I recommend you repent from your bigoting ways or face the wrath of the FSM's noodlely appendage!
Their are extreme religious groups that do do this. Their are extreme religious people within these groups that also do this. This is not Christianity as a whole and extreme blanket statements with a touch of hyperbole do not help the situation at all. Nor does it make a convincing argument.
That is silly at best.
Bigotry would be some kind of fear or hatred of gays, this is far from the truth. We accept the sinner, if we did not, churches would be empty. We fight against the sin, not the person.
on the contrary; i wouldn't want the authority to declare what is and is not sinful. fortunately; i don't have to give you "the truth from my perspective"; on the topic of sexuality, God has given us His.
And yet Gods law has stood the test of time. You do not need to understand the mechanics of science to understand Gods commands.
That is irrelevant, the law is just and moral. It has nothing at all to do with our understanding of science, nothing at all.
Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy," namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions.[50]
He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition.[51] On the following day this was commuted to house arrest, which he remained under for the rest of his life.
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.[52] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
Again yes it does, but we are not to condone or support immorality are we?
And I have known enough to call BS on that. In fact I lived in a gay household, so is my anecdotal evidence as valid as yours? Or should we just except anecdotal evidence is not really proof of anything.
This still did not answer my question: Where is the scientific report saying that being gay is heredity or a gene?
I tell adulterers they are sinners and need to repent, they don't go and kill themselves. I tell fornicators the same thing. They don't go and kill themselves. I also tell lier's, thief's etc exactly the same things.
It is more than just religion causing the problem. Soceity is not ready to accept the gay life style as moral or right. This is changing, but for now they are not.
They ARE gay Christians who run the first 2 groups I posted.
Please don't take my comments out of context, I don't do that to you. Here is my statement...
You cannot continually sin and expect to remain saved. At some point you are obviously not repentent and that is what eventually seperates people from God.
This is not to pick on you or insult you as I did before. Please look in the mirror, can you tell me you still have faith in God? And believe whole heartedly Christ is your savior? If you can't, then you know what separation I am talking about.[/b] - Blackdog
Care to answer? You don't have to and I will understand, but you will have made my point either way.
white southern baptist democrats. but I guess that since they are not a big nationwide group...they don't count.
That's because these creatures are so rare that they are largely mythological in this day and age. The last of them were almost wiped out during the great seminary rebellions of the 1980s and 1990s.
Christianity totally attacks people.
Just because you deem it "sin" does not take away from the fact that you are telling people their behavior is wrong and that you are comparing them to people who genuinely harm others like murderers.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) says that it is "bigotry" to judge gay people because they sleep with people of the same sex.
meh...montgomery, birmingham and mobile are full of em.
God has declared a lot of things to be sinful. When I see you ranting, daily, about the fatties (aka gluttons), I'll take you more seriously.
i've been to a share of Baptist churches in 'bama. I don't recall (for example) the Hunter Street Baptist church parking lot being chock full of democrat bumper stickers.
my dad was the pastor of Trinity United Methodist in Decatur for the past 9 or so years; i spent my summers, some weekends, and vacations there while i was going to birmingham southern. not discounting your point about white racists or black chicken lovers, but i don't recall (again) running into alot of white democrat baptists in that town.
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