Question for Conservatives:Is welfare Too High?

Joby · Jul 12, 2006

After Bush, and the GOP controled Government, raised the minimum for getting a child tax credit from $10,000 to $11,000, it obviously became harder for the lowest income families to raise their children. Do republicans want the level to be raised again?

These low class people did what the Republicans told them. They were responsible, and had babies Instead of abortions. They got a job instaed of going on welfare.

Now, why does the GOP want to make it harder on these families? To encourage abortions? That is the one likely result, for one, and one that shows just how cynical and cold hearted the Republicans are. (This was covered in the bill that gave about $14 billion back to corporations, or the september 23 2004 All American Tax Relief bill)

And please, No "These people are having babies to get welfare" BULLSHIT. If you earn $10,000 a year, and believe having a kid to get $1,000 more you're more than a bit delusional.

Narph · Jul 12, 2006

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson

Goobieman · Jul 12, 2006

Joby said:
After Bush, and the GOP controled Government, raised the minimum for getting a child tax credit from $10,000 to $11,000, it obviously became harder for the lowest income families to raise their children. Do republicans want the level to be raised again?

Not sure what you mean by this.
The Child Tax Credit applies to everyone that makes under a certain large amount.

Methnks you either aren't presenting this well, are operating under erroneous information (which would mean that you'd be a liar, if you were held to the same standard that liberals hold to GWB), or you're setting up a strawman.

Having said that, I 'm a little confused -- the polls asks about welfare, but your question, above, doesnt have anything to do with welfare.

Patrickt · Jul 13, 2006

I never realized the only alternative to having babies was abortion. Amazing.

To address your issue of welfare, however, I believe in some cases it's too high and in some cases it's too low.

Navy Pride · Jul 13, 2006

To me this looks like a flamming thread and hopefully it will find its way to the basement soon........

Deegan · Jul 13, 2006

Navy Pride said:
To me this looks like a flamming thread and hopefully it will find its way to the basement soon........

LOL, come now Navy.:rofl

Welfare will ruin this country, just as it has many others, let's be smart, and learn these obvious lessons shall we?

talloulou · Jul 13, 2006

Joby said:
After Bush, and the GOP controled Government, raised the minimum for getting a child tax credit from $10,000 to $11,000, it obviously became harder for the lowest income families to raise their children. Do republicans want the level to be raised again?

These low class people did what the Republicans told them. They were responsible, and had babies Instead of abortions. They got a job instaed of going on welfare.

Now, why does the GOP want to make it harder on these families? To encourage abortions? That is the one likely result, for one, and one that shows just how cynical and cold hearted the Republicans are. (This was covered in the bill that gave about $14 billion back to corporations, or the september 23 2004 All American Tax Relief bill)

And please, No "These people are having babies to get welfare" BULLSHIT. If you earn $10,000 a year, and believe having a kid to get $1,000 more you're more than a bit delusional.

Look if your income gets so low that you are no longer even paying income taxes than how can you expect an "income tax credit"?????? Huh????? The people who don't qualify for the child tax credit due to low income don't qualify because they don't pay federal taxes!

Also to suggest you should give a woman money in order to make her more responsible about her reproduction is ludicrous. God forbid my daughter grow up have an abortion and dare to blame it on me for not giving her money she didn't earn or deserve. What a load of BS.

The Dems are in trouble and this kind of nonsense is a prime example of how their logic continues to not add up. Love the new ad running on the DCCC website by the way. Personally I think it should air on Tv as it will only help Republicans get more votes.

http://dccc.org/multimedia/archives/new_directions/

talloulou · Jul 13, 2006

By the way I didn't answer your poll as it made less sense than the logic you applied in your post. :rofl

RightOfCenter · Jul 13, 2006

galenrox said:
Once again I'm gonna return to the idea of creating negative income tax brackets. We've established that something like 96% of taxes come from the top 10% of earners, or something along those lines, leaving only 4% of tax revenue coming from the other 90 (these numbers could be way off, but the general idea stays so)
QUOTE]
Actually the top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of incom taxes. The top 10% pays 65%. But these figures are as of 2001 so they maybe off somewhat, but not probably not by much.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/top_50__of_wage_earners_pay_96_09__of_income_taxes.guest.html

Kandahar · Jul 13, 2006

galenrox said:
If we're commited to a system of welfare, then I don't know if it's too high. Obviously it'd be near impossible to survive outside of squalor on 11 grand a year, but on the other hand, if you raise the amount of welfare, you will also raise the motivation to not work (along with increasing the marginal tax on the unemployed, although the marginal tax rate can't be increased because it's 100%)

Once again I'm gonna return to the idea of creating negative income tax brackets. We've established that something like 96% of taxes come from the top 10% of earners, or something along those lines, leaving only 4% of tax revenue coming from the other 90 (these numbers could be way off, but the general idea stays so)

So why not do away with welfare, and instead put the bottom 25-30% (or whatever) of earners into negative tax brackets. This way is softens the effects of marginal taxes on the unemployed seeking gainful work, while it still provides a system where the poor aren't ignored (for those with no income, there'd be maybe a given $5,000 a year welfare, plus whatever they would get from being in that negative bracket.

This way people will almost always make a close to equal amount more as they're getting paid more.

The problem with such a progressive system is that it encourages the majority of people to vote for politicians who promise more, more, more, regardless of whether it is beyond what our country can actually afford.

I'd rather just have two low tax brackets: 0% and 20%.

Goobieman · Jul 13, 2006

galenrox said:
If we're commited to a system of welfare, then I don't know if it's too high. Obviously it'd be near impossible to survive outside of squalor on 11 grand a year...

This "commitment" is obscene.
Government does not exist to provide you the means to exercise your rights.

So why not do away with welfare, and instead put the bottom 25-30% (or whatever) of earners into negative tax brackets.

Simple:
It means there wil be no entitlememt programs.
And the left will never allow for that.

Navy Pride · Jul 13, 2006

galenrox said:
People will always do that though. Those who receive welfare will continue to ask for more, people receiving tax cuts will always ask for more, people who benefit from any program will always ask for more.

This is the concept behind capitalism, insatiable want, limited resources. Politicians very often value getting re/elected more than distributing resources in a wise manner, and people will always listen to the guy who's telling them that they can have more. So this isn't a problem adharant to a negative income tax, this is a problem adharant to democracy.

People that want tax cuts want their own money........People on wlefarte don't pay taxes, a lot of them just want someone elses money.....

ProudAmerican · Jul 13, 2006

These low class people did what the Republicans told them. They were responsible, and had babies Instead of abortions.

actually, republicans say BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN DECISIONS AND YOUR OWN LIFE.

so if they truly did what republicans want them to do, welfare wouldnt even be an issue.

Navy Pride · Jul 13, 2006

ProudAmerican said:
actually, republicans say BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN DECISIONS AND YOUR OWN LIFE.

so if they truly did what republicans want them to do, welfare wouldnt even be an issue.

There are some legimate people on welfare but I would be willing to be that the majority of welfare recipients are just slurping at the government trough........

RightOfCenter · Jul 13, 2006

Navy Pride said:
There are some legimate people on welfare but I would be willing to be that the majority of welfare recipients are just slurping at the government trough........

I absolutely agree.

Navy Pride · Jul 13, 2006

RightOfCenter said:
I absolutely agree.

I apologize for insinuating that you were a democrat......I can understand how that might upset you.....I thought you were defending the revs. (and I use the term loosely) Sharpton and Jackson......... My Bad........

ProudAmerican · Jul 13, 2006

Navy Pride said:
There are some legimate people on welfare but I would be willing to be that the majority of welfare recipients are just slurping at the government trough........

agreed. one hundred percent

RightOfCenter · Jul 13, 2006

Navy Pride said:
I apologize for insinuating that you were a democrat......I can understand how that might upset you.....I thought you were defending the revs. (and I use the term loosely) Sharpton and Jackson......... My Bad........

Accepted, no worries.:2razz: And trust me, I probably dislike those two unholy rollers about as much as you do.

I am surprised, however, that not one person has voted that there isn't enough welfare, but I guess it was a question for conservatives.

RightOfCenter · Jul 14, 2006

galenrox said:
Are you a christian? I know you claim to be, but you seem to ignore the parts about charity being one of the greatest virtues.

I personally don't believe people on welfare are entitled to anything, but I do think that, as people who can afford to do so, it is our responsibility to help them as much as we can. I disagree with welfare, but I don't disagree with the principle, and I personally can't imagine a true christian who does.

Welfare is meant to help people get back on their feet, not allow them to be a leech on the system. Also, charity is one of the core values of being a christian, but there is a big difference between charity and being forced to give my money to someone to lazy to work for their own.

Navy Pride · Jul 14, 2006

galenrox said:
Are you a christian? I know you claim to be, but you seem to ignore the parts about charity being one of the greatest virtues.

I personally don't believe people on welfare are entitled to anything, but I do think that, as people who can afford to do so, it is our responsibility to help them as much as we can. I disagree with welfare, but I don't disagree with the principle, and I personally can't imagine a true christian who does.

Yeah I am Catholic, not a very good one though..I attend Mass every Sunday........I think it should be more up to charities and churches to help people that truly need welfare..I don't think it should be the job of the government or taxpayers..........

Joby · Jul 14, 2006

This was actually the first thing i could think of to try to off-set the stupido you think taxes are to low? Or do you want to raise it on yourself?

I saw what I wrote on a tv broadcast a while ago. Most of the facts I pulled outta my ***. just fyi...

Goobieman · Jul 14, 2006

galenrox said:
Are you a christian? I know you claim to be, but you seem to ignore the parts about charity being one of the greatest virtues.

Now now now...
Using Christian virtues to justfy the welfare state does two things that the left tells us we absolutely cannot do:
1- it violates the seperation of church and state
2- it is legislating morality.

I personally don't believe people on welfare are entitled to anything, but I do think that, as people who can afford to do so, it is our responsibility to help them as much as we can.

Then it needs to be voluntary, rather than madnated by the state.
Christian charity is dependant on that charity being voluntary, rather than forced.

dragonslayer · Jul 15, 2006

Joby said:
After Bush, and the GOP controled Government, raised the minimum for getting a child tax credit from $10,000 to $11,000, it obviously became harder for the lowest income families to raise their children. Do republicans want the level to be raised again?

These low class people did what the Republicans told them. They were responsible, and had babies Instead of abortions. They got a job instaed of going on welfare.

Now, why does the GOP want to make it harder on these families? To encourage abortions? That is the one likely result, for one, and one that shows just how cynical and cold hearted the Republicans are. (This was covered in the bill that gave about $14 billion back to corporations, or the september 23 2004 All American Tax Relief bill)

And please, No "These people are having babies to get welfare" BULLSHIT. If you earn $10,000 a year, and believe having a kid to get $1,000 more you're more than a bit delusional.

Dam Liberals, all they want to do is help people. Heck I agree with the my right wing radical buddies, and sister. let them dies. It means more money for my pocket. And we can kick em out into the street, and build a New McDonalds where they are living.

Navy Pride · Jul 15, 2006

dragonslayer said:
Dam Liberals, all they want to do is help people. Heck I agree with the my right wing radical buddies, and sister. let them dies. It means more money for my pocket. And we can kick em out into the street, and build a New McDonalds where they are living.

All they want to do is spend someone elses money...Keep pouring taxpayers money into failed welfare programs......It makes libs feel so good about themselves....

jamesrage · Jul 15, 2006

Joby said:
After Bush, and the GOP controled Government, raised the minimum for getting a child tax credit from $10,000 to $11,000, it obviously became harder for the lowest income families to raise their children. Do republicans want the level to be raised again?

These low class people did what the Republicans told them. They were responsible, and had babies Instead of abortions. They got a job instaed of going on welfare.

Now, why does the GOP want to make it harder on these families? To encourage abortions? That is the one likely result, for one, and one that shows just how cynical and cold hearted the Republicans are. (This was covered in the bill that gave about $14 billion back to corporations, or the september 23 2004 All American Tax Relief bill)

And please, No "These people are having babies to get welfare" BULLSHIT. If you earn $10,000 a year, and believe having a kid to get $1,000 more you're more than a bit delusional.

IN my opnion welfare should be a helping hand and not a hand out.

Question for Conservatives:Is welfare Too High?

Is Welfare Too High?

Yes

No

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