Putin might be plotting to ignite the Balkan powderkeg

[joluoto]

'Friend of our country': Putin praises separatist Bosnian Serb leader during his Kremlin visit

One of the most vulnerable European nations right now is Bosnia- Herzegovina, where the autonomous Republika Srpska under Milorad Dodik basically has seceded in all but name. They have completeley stopped cooperating with federal authorities. Now Putin seem to want to use this situation to force Europe's attention to diverge to the Balkans. And if Bosnia explodes, which seems more and more likely, Europe will indeed have to pay attention. Bosnia borders EU and NATO member Croatia, as well as NATO member and EU membership candidate Montenegro. Though Europe is partly to blame for this. Since the 90s Europe has tried to avoid touching Bosnia as it's the plague. Bosnia thus has been isolated and alone, which has weakened the country and never created any legitimacy for the federal government. When Bosnia should have been embraced into the European family it was instead rejected and shunned. And the result is obvious. A country on the brink of collapse, where Putin can reignite the violence in the Balkans.

 

[joluoto]

Ethnic map of Bosnia (2013)

Administrative map of Bosnia- Herzegovina:

 

[PeteEU]

He does not have to do anything. It will happen all by it self.

 

[Juin]

He does not have to do anything. It will happen all by it self.

Blame it on Putin. We should replace the old "the dog ate my homework" with "Putin ate my homework"

 

[reinaert]

He does not have to do anything. It will happen all by it self.

This was avoidable.

And, Putin has been promising the Serbian fascists support since last winter, at the minimum.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Blame it on Putin. We should replace the old "the dog ate my homework" with "Putin ate my homework"

I think you need to re-read what PeteEU said and break it down to simpler chunks for yourself.

 

[Juin]

I think you need to re-read what PeteEU said and break it down to simpler chunks for yourself.

Dont you have something better to do?

 

[PeteEU]

This was avoidable.

And, Putin has been promising the Serbian fascists support since last winter, at the minimum.

No it is not avoidable... it goes back to the Roman times if not before. Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Croats, and Bosnians all hate each other and have been causing wars to ignite in the whole region for centuries. Add in the Hungarians, Greeks and Turks, and you have a powderkeg that will explode at some point ... yet again.

Putin supports any and all organisations that will cause chaos in the west so that is nothing new.

 

[PeteEU]

Blame it on Putin. We should replace the old "the dog ate my homework" with "Putin ate my homework"

There is no doubt that Putin or others who want to keep chaos and war going, will influence directly or indirectly any and all countries/organisations/political parties if the influence will get to the end goal.. which can be selling more weapons, causing political chaos in competing economic/political/military blocs or alliances...

But then we should not forget, that this tactic has been used for decades and even centuries by others...western nations. The British Empire kept the Ottoman Empire alive, just to check the Russian Empire. Before that, the German/Austrian/Polish/Russian alliance was kept alive to counter Napoleon.. it is an old and well used tactic.

 

[reinaert]

No it is not avoidable... it goes back to the Roman times if not before. Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Croats, and Bosnians all hate each other and have been causing wars to ignite in the whole region for centuries. Add in the Hungarians, Greeks and Turks, and you have a powderkeg that will explode at some point ... yet again.

Putin supports any and all organisations that will cause chaos in the west so that is nothing new.

There is no difference between a Serb, Croat or Bosnian except the word for bread'.

 

[PeteEU]

There is no difference between a Serb, Croat or Bosnian except the word for bread'.

Well, 1000+ years of conflict would disagree with you. It is like saying there is no difference between an Englishman and an Irishman.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Well, 1000+ years of conflict would disagree with you. It is like saying there is no difference between an Englishman and an Irishman.

Well said.

That puts the entire thing in perspective. The west has no idea what's behind the tensions, and not understanding means they will only act when its in their face.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Dont you have something better to do?

Until you can point out where "it will happen all by itself" = "blame it on Putin..." then no, I'm here to laugh at you.

 

[Chagos]

Dont you have something better to do?

Until you can point out where "it will happen all by itself" = "blame it on Putin..." then no, I'm here to laugh at you.

Asking others whether they have nothing better to do becomes especially laughable, when the questioner shows as having practically nothing other to do than peddling Kremlin lies that serve to defend his admired bandit.

Well, laughable it would be, were it not so tedious.

 

[Chagos]

There is no difference between a Serb, Croat or Bosnian except the word for bread'.

That's a bit like saying that (down over here) Galicians and the Andaluz are practically identical.

Don't even get me started on Catalunyans.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Oh good, because that area needs to see more conflict, loss of life, war crimes, what have you.

Putin potentially being in the mix just makes matters worse, for everyone. Including Putin / Russian apologists that should know better.

 

[Chagos]

Well, 1000+ years of conflict would disagree with you. It is like saying there is no difference between an Englishman and an Irishman.

Not to even mention that the Serbs write with the use of Cyrillic letters, while Croats use the Latin type.

To wit: bread = хлеба and kruh.

now work out the difference, ladies.

 

[Chagos]

Oh good, because that area needs to see more conflict, loss of life, war crimes, what have you.

Putin potentially being in the mix just makes matters worse, for everyone. Including Putin / Russian apologists that should know better.

Kindly quit with the oxymorons, eh?

 

[OrphanSlug]

Kindly quit with the oxymorons, eh?

I wish, but we have too many in these forums that ultimately defend what Putin is doing to that area of the world. Entirely on purpose.

 

[reinaert]

That's a bit like saying that (down over here) Galicians and the Andaluz are practically identical.

Don't even get me started on Catalunyans.

If you speak a dialect of the Serbo-Croat language, you'll understand my reference.

 

[reinaert]

Not to even mention that the Serbs write with the use of Cyrillic letters, while Croats use the Latin type.

To wit: bread = хлеба and kruh.

now work out the difference, ladies.

It's not that different. I have (awful) Turkish/Greek coffee with old Yugoslavs from time to time, Srb, Bosniak and Hrvat - and they do not consider themselves different people.

You guys are exaggerating a distinction that most of the natives of the region don't emphasize. A very - Northern European mistake, the kind that fixates on how a Vlams speaker is different from a Nederlands speaker, or how a Walloon is this big distinction from a Dutchmen. The kind that sees small dialectic shifts or sectarian differences as gulfs, say the ones that transform people into vastly different peoples because some shitbag English monarch drew a line through Ireland.

 

[Chagos]

It's not that different. I have (awful) Turkish/Greek coffee with old Yugoslavs from time to time, Srb, Bosniak and Hrvat - and they do not consider themselves different people.

Speaking of coffee, one of my more sadistic pleasures used to be that of ordering a Greek coffee in a Turkish restaurant and a Turkish one in a Greek restaurant.

You guys are exaggerating a distinction that most of the natives of the region don't emphasize. A very - Northern European mistake, the kind that fixates on how a Vlams speaker is different from a Nederlands speaker, or how a Walloon is this big distinction from a Dutchmen. The kind that sees small dialectic shifts or sectarian differences as gulfs, say the ones that transform people into vastly different peoples because some shitbag English monarch drew a line through Ireland.

I've been to (then) Yugoslavia many times before the wars and was actually in "Eastern" Croatia when the Serbs invaded (after the Croatians had done the same further West, or, better said, round about the same time that they had).

And where, in times that I could still conduct business thruout Yugoslavia, they all seemed to get on with each other more or less, the frictions were already so apparent that I actually predicted military conflict, while hoping to be wrong.

Tito clearly managed to keep a lid on the cauldron that was always near boiling point, but when he died so did the lash that had been necessary to keep up co-habitation.

Contrary to your experience I also subsequently saw Serbs and Croats engaging in fisticuffs at the time, way outside of their respective countries.

 

[Chagos]

If you speak a dialect of the Serbo-Croat language, you'll understand my reference.

The languages of the people I cited are not far apart either. That doesn't make them a homogeneous mass, save for holding the same nationality.

 

[PeteEU]

The languages of the people I cited are not far apart either. That doesn't make them a homogeneous mass, save for holding the same nationality.

The list of peoples who are basically cousins or brothers or the same and who are in conflict is quite long...

Northern Ireland, Palestine/Isreal, Ukraine and so on and so on.

 

[TypicalRussian]

'Friend of our country': Putin praises separatist Bosnian Serb leader during his Kremlin visit

One of the most vulnerable European nations right now is Bosnia- Herzegovina, where the autonomous Republika Srpska under Milorad Dodik basically has seceded in all but name. They have completeley stopped cooperating with federal authorities. Now Putin seem to want to use this situation to force Europe's attention to diverge to the Balkans. And if Bosnia explodes, which seems more and more likely, Europe will indeed have to pay attention. Bosnia borders EU and NATO member Croatia, as well as NATO member and EU membership candidate Montenegro. Though Europe is partly to blame for this. Since the 90s Europe has tried to avoid touching Bosnia as it's the plague. Bosnia thus has been isolated and alone, which has weakened the country and never created any legitimacy for the federal government. When Bosnia should have been embraced into the European family it was instead rejected and shunned. And the result is obvious. A country on the brink of collapse, where Putin can reignite the violence in the Balkans.

First of all there will be no war. The young in bosnia, serbs and muslims alike, are quite pro-EU and will absolutely not fight any war.

With that said, why not let srpska run free? 1 million Bosnian Serbs are not interested in a unitarian state where they would have to be under jurisdiction of Muslim courts and legislatures? And plus the only reason why muslims won't allow Srpska to become independent is out of hate for the 90's. They think that the country is a new construction made out of genocide, and that because of the events prior, they shouldn't have the fundamental right of self-determination. When in reality, Bosnian Serbs have been politically active ever since the Ottoman times.

Bosnian Serbs long to be free, and they have been denied that right for ages. Unlike their counterparts in Serbia, Bosnian Serbs were forced to work for their BOSNIAN Muslim feudal Lords during the Ottoman times. In fact, centuries later, many Bosnian Muslims still lament over their loss of land and feudal power which was lost during Austrian occupation.

During WW2, Bosnian Serbs faced the brunt of the Ustashe regime. Bosnia was directly occupied by the Croatian regime, and they faced mass executions on an unbelievable scale. The Muslims were also complacent in the occupation.

And then comes the war in the 90's. They did not want to join a state that would be under Islamic rule, so they held their own referendum that was rejected. And then war broke out, which was started by the Muslims. 23,000 Serbs died and all of their leadership is in jail or dead for war crimes. Fast forward to today, and they cannot declare independence thanks to a US-NATO-EU blockade on the country and it's plans. The High Representative serves as a Western viceroy that has held Srpska hostage.