1750Texan
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WASHINGTON — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia reached out to President Obama on Friday to discuss ideas about how to peacefully resolve the international standoff over Ukraine, a surprise move by Moscow to pull back from the brink of an escalated confrontation that has put Europe and much of the world on edge.
Mornin' T :2wave: .....that what I heard to. Also Lavrov pledged on Television that Russia would not move troops into the Ukraine. He also told people that Russia and the West were moving to closer positions upon the matter.
Putin is calling for the Federalization of the Ukraine.....and also throwing out the condition that Ukraine not join NATO. Which the EU and ourselves won't go for that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/29/world/europe/putin-calls-obama-on-Ukraine.html?_r=0
A whole hell of a lot better than amassing troops.
I could not read that article because it requires an account with NY Times. First of all, I think this confirms that Putin has no desire to seize further territory by force, and therefore the characterization of Putin as Hitler was a foolish comment by Hillary Clinton and others meant simply for domestic, political consumption. If HC actually plans to be president, this demonstrates, IMO, that she should not have the job. She will have to work with this person, and that's no good way to start.
Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.
If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.
Mornin' MSteel.Here I have some on it with what Lavrov was saying. Points out some other interesting points as well. I don't think the Eu nor the US will go for it now. They already signed some papers with the EU and are getting the Aid from the US and the IMF. Moreover earlier in the month when Ban Ki Moon went to Moscow.....back then Putin told him he would not move troops into the Ukraine.
Russia vows no Ukraine invasion as leaders seek solution.....
Russia on Saturday pledged it would not invade mainland Ukraine following its seizure of Crimea and said it favoured the ex-Soviet state becoming a federation as a way of defusing the crisis.
But telephone talks between Putin and US counterpart Barack Obama late on Friday were the latest sign of a slight lessening in tensions between Moscow and the West and a search for a mutual solution in what remains the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.
Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hinted at what were Moscow's main demands in the negotiations -- that Ukraine should be made into a federation and commit to not joining NATO, while order should be restored to the Ukrainian capital Kiev where protesters have thronged the city centre for half a year.
He said that the West was showing openness to Russia's idea of a federalised Ukraine.
"They are listening. I can say that a federation (for Ukraine) is far from being a forbidden word in our talks," Lavrov said. "To be honest, we do not see any other path forwards for the Ukrainian state other than federalisation."
"The Russian leader suggested examining possible steps of the international community to help stabilise the situation," the Kremlin said, adding the issue would be discussed by Lavrov and US counterpart John Kerry.....snip~
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-russia-must-move-back-troops-003508153.html?.tsrc=telkomsel
Hi MMC. Thanks for that. Well I'm relieved that it appears both sides are behaving in a mature cool-headed manner. I hope they continue in that spirit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/29/world/europe/putin-calls-obama-on-Ukraine.html?_r=0
A whole hell of a lot better than amassing troops.
How do you know?
I could not read that article because it requires an account with NY Times. First of all, I think this confirms that Putin has no desire to seize further territory by force, and therefore the characterization of Putin as Hitler was a foolish comment by Hillary Clinton and others meant simply for domestic, political consumption. If HC actually plans to be president, this demonstrates, IMO, that she should not have the job. She will have to work with this person, and that's no good way to start.
Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.
If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.
You betcha ya' it is. Now we'll see what we're made of. We have an opportunity to negotiate a satisfactory settlement. We won't get everything we want, and neither will Russia; but we can't afford bright red lines on this.
How do I know what? That dialog is better that troop movement...experience.
It might work out and the Ukraine gets the aid......Obama did tell the Georgians they wont be getting into NATO anytime soon. Although I think Poland will stay on alert.
"Hey Barack, I know I illegally sent troops into Crimea and forced annexation on them, but let's negotiate now that I'm unable to really go any further."
"Vlad, go f*** yourself. The sanctions ain't comin off til you learn your lesson"
Well let's hope so. Poland is a done deal. The thing is this, the US has a lot of commitments around the world. Some of that stuff made sense in the post WWII era. It's a good question as to whether we should continue to extend ourselves in this way. For instance, do we really need to be responsible for the defense of Japan. Why can't they do it themselves? Just saying.
It also must be recognized that Crimea is predominantly Russian speaking, that Putin warned Bush he would "tear her apart" if the US tried to interfere in Ukraine affairs.
This is all of Washington's doing.
"Hey Barack, I know I illegally sent troops into Crimea and forced annexation on them, but let's negotiate now that I'm unable to really go any further."
"Vlad, go f*** yourself. The sanctions ain't comin off til you learn your lesson"
You betcha ya' it is. Now we'll see what we're made of. We have an opportunity to negotiate a satisfactory settlement. We won't get everything we want, and neither will Russia; but we can't afford bright red lines on this.
Obama obviously scared Putin....
It is a brilliant move by Putin....holding out an olive branch to the Peace Prize recipient.
Show's who's got the moxie on the international scene.
Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.
If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.
Obama has nothing to negotiate with. Putin holds all the cards. Putin is going to tell Obama what he wants and Obama is going to give it to him.
Well let's hope so. Poland is a done deal. The thing is this, the US has a lot of commitments around the world. Some of that stuff made sense in the post WWII era. It's a good question as to whether we should continue to extend ourselves in this way. For instance, do we really need to be responsible for the defense of Japan. Why can't they do it themselves? Just saying.
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