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By all means, do present your list of tried and true "solutions" that will go a long ways to solving this crime problem.
Your point? The question of the thread is "which do you prefer?". I never said that punishment was not needed or should be stopped altogether. But I do believe that solutions need to be had. The problem being that we don't have hardly any. We have drug rehabilitation facilities, AA and not much else.
Also you should prolly note that I am talking about major crimes and not piddly ones like texting while driving.
Time and time again we hear about some politician/s passing new laws or or attempting to pass new laws that increase punishments of those convicted of some crime or other. It is obvious, to me at least, that this line of thinking is a failure. Isn't it time that we start trying to come up with solutions instead of just adding more punishments?
Which do you prefer?
as I recall, the recidivism rate for felons who are punished with death is zero.
Are you insinuating we execute all felons?
Who ever said anything about "tried and true"? The problem that I am bringing up is that this country focus's more on punishments than solutions. And that practice is a failure. So why not change our methods?
Time and time again we hear about some politician/s passing new laws or or attempting to pass new laws that increase punishments of those convicted of some crime or other. It is obvious, to me at least, that this line of thinking is a failure. Isn't it time that we start trying to come up with solutions instead of just adding more punishments?
Which do you prefer?
All? no. we have a fence along the southern border that needs a moat dug, and a pipeline up in Alaska that needs workers.
but murderers and violent rapists? yup. preferably in public. murderers to be expanded to those who took actions that were conceivably intended to kill someone, but failed. drop a shopping cart on someone's head from an overpass - they take you out in front of your neighborhood and hang you. let all your "boys" see how "tough" you are when you are crying and pooping and choking. that will have effect -not like our current idiotic over-costly system where the deed is separated from the punishment.
Why not torture them first in the public square? How about burning them to the stake?
Frankly, if you're not willing to inject the lethal dose of potassium chloride, then maybe you should reconsider your own convictions. But I suppose you'd take the job.
All? no. we have a fence along the southern border that needs a moat dug, and a pipeline up in Alaska that needs workers.
I favor the line, but the "moat" ???
The moat protects those in their ivory towers , these people need to be booted out and exposed..
but murderers and violent rapists? yup. preferably in public. murderers to be expanded to those who took actions that were conceivably intended to kill someone, but failed. drop a shopping cart on someone's head from an overpass - they take you out in front of your neighborhood and hang you. let all your "boys" see how "tough" you are when you are crying and pooping and choking. that will have effect -not like our current idiotic over-costly system where the deed is separated from the punishment.
I favor the line, but the "moat" ???
The moat protects those in their ivory towers , these people need to be booted out and exposed..
Our level of civilization is reflected on how we handle our "criminals"
Cp, IMO, your methods did not work in the 6th century nor the 16th century...why should they work today ????
Love is more effective than hate.
neither is necessary and both would probably violate the Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment. hanging is well within our tradition, though firing squad would work just as well.
:shrug: I wouldn't have any moral qualms with it. Much easier than the shades-of-grey decisions we faced in Iraq.It probably wouldn't pay well enough to attract me, though.
Time and time again we hear about some politician/s passing new laws or or attempting to pass new laws that increase punishments of those convicted of some crime or other. It is obvious, to me at least, that this line of thinking is a failure. Isn't it time that we start trying to come up with solutions instead of just adding more punishments?
Which do you prefer?
PUNISHMENT. The problem is that we no longer know what PUNISHMENT truly is in this society. Our prisons look more like spas than actual prisons. We fail to incarcerate a large percentage of the criminals, choosing instead to fine them or use some other form of non-punishment. We aren't even able to convict an acceptable rate of the criminals in our society. When we actually return to PUNISHMENT, things will turn around, but not until then.
Spa? Tell that to Ted Kaczynski. I've never been to a spa where they lock you up in a windowless, 7 x 12 foot concrete and metal, soundproof cell for 23 hours a day.
Realizing that my personal vision of a proper prison is essentially Alcatraz, Mensch. I'm talking utter silence, almost zero contact with any other human being, no tv, no workout rooms, etc.... You may think that's cruel and inhumane but you have to consider my other alternative, immediate execution for any felony conviction. Straight from the appeals court to the gallows.
Realizing that my personal vision of a proper prison is essentially Alcatraz, Mensch. I'm talking utter silence, almost zero contact with any other human being, no tv, no workout rooms, etc.... You may think that's cruel and inhumane but you have to consider my other alternative, immediate execution for any felony conviction. Straight from the appeals court to the gallows.
Why do you insist on imitating the brutal acts of third world dictatorships?
Hanging in the public square? What if the neck doesn't break? How does strangulation that takes anywhere from 10-20 minutes NOT cruel and unusual punishment?
:shrug: i see no reason to say that intelligent application of the death penalty is inherently dictatorial. emotionalism makes for an excellent demagougic, but a poor debate strategy.
strangulation does not take 10-20 minutes unless you've made a complete cockup of it. the restriction in the bloodflow alone typically ensures unconsciousness in about 30 seconds.
however, Hanging is solidly within the American legal tradition, and there is no reason to suppose it is inherently cruel, as it is certainly not unusual. If we were to attempt to ensure that the person was fully conscious for 20 minutes of slow strangulation - that would be cruelty.
38 views and several hours later and no one has an opinion on this? No votes? Is my question really that hard to answer?
Strange...but I'd favor equal persecution against those who steal.....To me there is a large difference between 2.5K million and 2.5K .....Punishment is a solution. I'd be happy to say there are other potential solutions, too. The most basic solutions begin early in the development of a child. If they grow up with parents who don't know how to live in a "civilized" society, then it's hard for them to learn how to be "civilized". In this case, I'm defining civilized as being in accordance with behavior that society doesn't want to punish.And it has been demonstrated quite well that society cares not to punish those who use drugs...and a majority seem to favor legalization of marajuana...
I'm less likely to want to punish the guy that stole $2.5 million of some corporation's money (unless some of it was mine) than I am the guy who broke into a house to steal a TV. Call it what you want, that's just me; and I think most people feel the same. If you can maneuver and blend within society, society is more likely to accept you. That's a basic trait of society.
So, if you're looking for a "solution" in addition to punishment, I suggest first admitting that the welfare state has failed. 2nd, eliminate support of the "anti-social" immediately...Well, that includes me !. And, 3rd, wait about 15-30 years for the current anti-social generation to age. During that time, use harsh punishment and long jail terms for offenses demonstrating a lack of knowledge about what society expects.
Strange...but I'd favor equal persecution against those who steal.....To me there is a large difference between 2.5K million and 2.5K .....
Its my feeling that the thief who steals from the corporation or from an individual is also stealing from all of us..
Has the "welfare state" failed ?
Does it exist ?
Ask Rush !
For things to improve, we will need a better people.
PUNISHMENT. The problem is that we no longer know what PUNISHMENT truly is in this society. Our prisons look more like spas than actual prisons. We fail to incarcerate a large percentage of the criminals, choosing instead to fine them or use some other form of non-punishment. We aren't even able to convict an acceptable rate of the criminals in our society. When we actually return to PUNISHMENT, things will turn around, but not until then.
PUNISHMENT. The problem is that we no longer know what PUNISHMENT truly is in this society. Our prisons look more like spas than actual prisons. We fail to incarcerate a large percentage of the criminals, choosing instead to fine them or use some other form of non-punishment. We aren't even able to convict an acceptable rate of the criminals in our society. When we actually return to PUNISHMENT, things will turn around, but not until then.
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