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Professor Walter Myers III "Destroys CRT Narrative at School Board Meeting."

Do you agree with Professor Myers' position on CRT and its place in Grade Schools?

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Captain Adverse

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I discovered this video today 03/24/23 and I think it will be informative on the issue of CRT being taught in Public Schools.

The speaker is Professor Walter Myers III and his CV can be found here:

Walter Myers III

Walter is a Principal Engineering Manager leading a team of engineers, working with customers to drive their success in the Microsoft Azure Cloud. He holds a Master’s Degree in Philosophy from Biola…
www.discovery.org

In the below video Professor Myers discusses CRT, it's history and it's place (if any) in K -12 schools:


The question (AFTER you view the video) is this:

Do you agree with his presentation of both the history of CRT, it's purposes, and his position on whether it belongs at any level in Grade Schools?

Vote and discuss.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I discovered this video today 03/24/28
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You're from the future? What's it like?


Before making us watch a video, tell us exactly how much CRT is in K-12 schools. Cite your non-video sources.
 
Phys251 said:
You're from the future? What's it like?
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Corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.

Phys251 said:
Before making us watch a video, tell us exactly how much CRT is in K-12 schools. Cite your non-video sources.
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NO. This thread is created for the purpose stated.

If you want to have such a discussion, then you post your own thread and terms for discussion.

Otherwise, view the video and participate, or not.
 
Reactions: PoS
Captain Adverse said:
Corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.



NO. This thread is created for the purpose stated.
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You don't get to come in here, post a loaded video, and demand that we watch it. That's an arrogant demand and it doesn't work in a debate.

Captain Adverse said:
If you want to have such a discussion, then you post your own thread and terms for discussion.

Otherwise, view the video and participate, or not.
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That's a strong indication that you have no such sources. Care to swing and miss again?
 
Generally people are ignorant about what CRT is and they'll just pretend that it's history and involving like discussions about slavery and no that's not CRT that's just called history. So you're not going to get anything honest out of this at least not from the proponents of CRT.

They'll act like it's not even part of school after making the claim that it has to do with history.

Essentially what this man is doing respect his effort is he trying to teach pigs to sing.
 
I think his explanation of the origin of CRT is right on. I also think his commentary regarding the effects of CRT in education is spot on. The audience commentary, in particular the "you don't speak for me" bit, merely serves to validate what he's saying.

It's interesting how the emotional reaction to CRT underscores the problems with the theory on one side and undermines message of the theory on the other side. CRT is, without question, an ideology that holds people back rather than one that raises them up. It is, in practice, a method of institutionalizing the failures it purports to overcome.
 
Excellent video, and well worth viewing. I agree wholly with Professor Myers presentation, and after watching had to go back to 9:27 where he said "Now, the second key tenet of CRT, sometimes called interest convergence, is a notion advanced by Derek Bell, who argues that in advancing racial equality, the interests of blacks will only be accommodated when they converge with the interests of whites." That made me go back and view the video again as I didn't recall what the first key tenet was.
At 7:54, "The first key tenet of CRT is its assertion that the law has been historically complicit in upholding white supremacy, which is the social domination and subordination of blacks and other people of color."
As for K-12 education system, the primary focus should be teaching subjects necessary to become a productive member of society, regardless of race. In my senior year, one classmate turned 21 prior to graduation, having failed and had to repeat several grades. That was 70 years ago, do ever students fail and have to repeat a grade in schools today?
 
Captain Adverse said:
NO. This thread is created for the purpose stated.

If you want to have such a discussion, then you post your own thread and terms for discussion.

Otherwise, view the video and participate, or not.
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Okay. Not.
 
Oh, the CRT boogyman again? How Quaint.

 
Other - the idea that adding CRT to “black history” will help to lessen (or eliminate) the racial achievement gap in K-12 education is BS.

The “CRT” discussion was limited to education and more specifically to (public?) K-12 educational outcome - noting proficiency disparities in English and math by race. One (basic social?) institution not mentioned was the family and, more specifically, the two-parent vs. single parent family. The idea that changes to K-12 schools or any other government programs can act as (or functionally replace) a missing parent was never addressed.

KIDS COUNT Data Center from the Annie E. Casey Foundation

Explore the KIDS COUNT Data Center for free statistical data about economics, education and health sorted by race, sex and age in our national data center.
datacenter.kidscount.org

Children and Families

www.impactmw.org

Children & Youth

ACT Rochester's purpose is to change the culture of community problem-solving and associated decision making through the use of credible, independent and timely data. This is accomplished when people LEARN about key issues, CONNECT with others in the community, and ACT to promote change.
www.actrochester.org

While correlation (obviously) isn’t causation, it‘s well worth noting the (amazing?) alignment of single parent households, race and K-12 educational achievement disparity.
 
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Master’s Degree in Philosophy from Biola University's Talbot School of Theology,

Adjunct faculty member in the Master of Arts in Science & Religion (MASR) program teaching on Darwinian evolution from a design-centric perspective.

He is also a board member of the Orange County Classical Academy (OCCA), a classical charter school in Southern California associated with Hillsdale College.
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Yeah, no.
 
1. I did not watch the video.

2. But I think that CRT should be taught in every grade -- even kindergarten.

3. CRT will eventually have NO effect either way on the students.

4. When they leave school and start meeting reality in daily life, they will make up their own minds about the ethnic situation in this country.


a. When I was a teenager, I too used to cry buckets of tears for a certain group. When I started working in my twenties after college, those tears soon dried up really fast.
 
TheParser said:
1. I did not watch the video.
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Then it appears you choose not to be informed on the issue being discussed. Instead simply assuming notions about the information and deciding it is not worth hearing.

TheParser said:
2. But I think that CRT should be taught in every grade -- even kindergarten.
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On what basis? As it seems to me absent an understanding of it's sources, tenets, and the problems with its basic premises that suggesting any merit to its educational application is inherently fallacious.

TheParser said:
3. CRT will eventually have NO effect either way on the students.
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I disagree. It is more of the "ideology of systemic oppression" designed to undermine societal values, especially those of "western civilization."

TheParser said:
4. When they leave school and start meeting reality in daily life, they will make up their own minds about the ethnic situation in this country.
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You mean like so many of those we see acting in a wholly selfish, self-centered, ill-informed way, often presenting with emotion rather than well-considered thought?

TheParser said:
a. When I was a teenager, I too used to cry buckets of crocodile tears for a certain group. When I started working in my twenties after college, those tears soon dried up really fast.
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What does this mean?

Does not seem to have anything to do with the topic.
 
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While I think any theory of history that is reductionist like CRT is always going to be flawed, anyone from the Discovery Institute is not going to have the scientific integrity to challenge anything. The Discovery Institute's only purpose to exist is promote "Intelligent Design", and other attempts to inject Christian beliefs into public school curriculum, particularly in science and history classes.

Now, that is not to say this person is not a highly intelligent and accomplished person, of course he is. What I am saying is that if he is working for the Discovery Institute, by definition, his personal religious beliefs and ideology overrides his ability to be unbiased in his views, otherwise he wouldn't work for the Discovery Institute.

I did watch the video, and I think his argument about segregated schools are flawed. CRT has nothing to do with teacher's unions. Teachers unions would be acting in the same manner as they are now regardless of whether anyone had ever heard of CRT. Moreover, his argument about the focus should have been on improving black schools rather than integrating schools is flawed considered that is exactly the argument segregationists made, "separate but equal". If people of means are moving out of a district, then you will have separate, but never equal.

Finally, it is worth pointing out that the states with the best public school systems are all liberal to moderate states:

States With The Best Public School Systems

From class size and teacher credentials to dropout rates and safety, some states outshine others when it comes to quality of public school systems.
www.forbes.com

The states with the worst public school systems are dominated by red states.
 
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Learning about Emett Till and Tulsa is now CRT along with anything else some morons don't like or can't handle.
 
Interesting video. Thanks. Just goes to show that the rumors about how repellent this extremist concept is, is indeed spot on.
 
ALiberalModerate said:
While I think any theory of history that is reductionist like CRT is always going to be flawed,
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Good point...


...unfortunately followed by an ad hominin "personal attack" on the presenter, asserting bias which might in fact be one's own confirmation bias at work. One should be willing to listen to opposing views and assess them on basic merit rather then automatically assume a negative view of the source equates to "bad information." I prefer taking such information with a grain of salt while still being willing to accept it's factual merits.


Again, attacking the source rather than assessing the merits of the information presented. For example, he starts with a factual recitation of the founding of "Critical Theory," coupled with the ideology it is based upon. That is something I have been personally aware of for decades as a holder of a graduate degree in American history. I have even discussed the "Frankfort School" and the transition of cultural Marxist ideology by members of same who fled to the USA via gathering in Columbia University in the 1930's. Particularly in the Columbia School of Education (Teachers College).

ALiberalModerate said:
I did watch the video, and I think his argument about segregated schools are flawed. CRT has nothing to do with teacher's unions.
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I disagree, having been a teacher myself while working on my first graduate degree. I was personally aware of "seedlings" of Critical Theory during Union meetings and that was back in the Mid-1980's.


Arguable perhaps, but IMO the roots of such "acting" was based on Critical Theory and Marxism which tend to thrive in a "union" atmosphere. Especially since many teachers were exposed to and instructed in Critical Theory. This as it spread to other Universities from its roots in the Columbia School of Education where those "Frankfurt School" Marxists found their home after leaving Germany in the 1930's.


Well, in the first place you are quoting from a Forbes article from 2018 which cites a "WalletHub" ranking. That link is no longer valid (can't open as "page cannot be found").

In the second place, this is Wallet Hub: "WalletHub is the first-ever website to offer free credit scores and full credit reports that are updated on a daily basis. But we consider that just an appetizer, as we’ve built the brain of an artificially intelligent financial advisor that will truly leave your wallet full." https://wallethub.com/about/

Moreover, there is a problem with Black and Hispanic graduation rates regardless of locale when compared to White and Asian students. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/coi

As most Black students typically live in large cities which are also typically controlled by not only "liberal" city governments, but also contain large Teacher Union memberships, so by any expected metrics they should be doing much better than they actually are. That cannot be due to "white supremacy" per CRT, so there must be some other issues at play.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Corrected. Thanks for pointing it out.



NO. This thread is created for the purpose stated.

If you want to have such a discussion, then you post your own thread and terms for discussion.

Otherwise, view the video and participate, or not.
Click to expand...

Not. I don’t do videos. In a DISCUSSION forum, if you can’t put it in your own words, it’s not worth the time. This is not a “watch my video” forum.
 
My point in bringing up the Discovery Institute is that it would be like working for a think tank that promotes Flat Earth Theory, it calls into question the level of bias a person has.

As to the differences in graduation rates, that is poverty at work. Unfortunately, we see more black families with absentee fathers or in some cases, absentee both parents. Even the best public schools would have a hard time compensating for that.

Finally, everything is not Marxism. Just because one of the original proponents of an idea was also a Marxist doesn't mean that the idea in it's current form is Marxist or that its proponents are promoting Marxism. For example, Mao was a talented poet, that does not mean that poetry is always Marxist.
 
ALiberalModerate said:
My point in bringing up the Discovery Institute is that it would be like working for a think tank that promotes Flat Earth Theory, it calls into question the level of bias a person has.
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I know what your point was. Hence my response.

ALiberalModerate said:
As to the differences in graduation rates, that is poverty at work.
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Not really. IMO that's a tired answer often used based on a preconceived notion of poverty affecting student attendance and study habits in school. It MIGHT have had some play prior to the expansion of the Welfare State under President Johnson, but IMO there are many other "social factors" which come into play and "poverty" is the least of them.

ALiberalModerate said:
Unfortunately, we see more black families with absentee fathers or in some cases, absentee both parents. Even the best public schools would have a hard time compensating for that.
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That is one of the factors I refer to above. But "absentee fathers" are a direct result of the Welfare State created by Johnson and the Democrats in the mid-60's - 70's. When minority women can only get money if a man capable of working is not in the home, and they can also get more per "child," then you get the expected results.


CRT is based on a variation of Marxist theory developed in the Frankfurt School, and this is CLEARLY EXPLAINED in the video.
 
Back in the 60s, The John Birch Society "clearly explained" all sorts of things they thought were tied to Marxism, yet most people rightly disagreed with them. For example, Hitler was a vegetarian and loved dogs, that does not mean liking dogs and vegetarianism has anything to do with Nazism.

The fact is Marxism ties everything back to class rather than race. In Marxism, racism is only a tool used by the wealthy to divide the poor. In that regard, CRT, which makes everything about race, is utterly antithetical to Marxism. Moreover, in the video, he talks about how the original proponents of Critical Theory did not believe there was an absolute sense of morality in the universe. That belief isn't Marxism, its Atheism and a belief that all atheists share regardless of their politics.
 
Dr Myers comment regarding teacher’s unions was him quoting from Dr Derrick Bell, the “father” of CRT.
 
AV8OR said:
Dr Myers comment regarding teacher’s unions was him quoting from Dr Derrick Bell, the “father” of CRT.
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Ideas are not like religions, they are not established by a prophet and never changed. His employer, the Discovery Institute, engages in similar arguments against evolution by attacking Darwin as though the theory has not built on and contributed to since then.

I am not a fan of any reductionist narrative of history including CRT, but just because the originator of an idea believed something doesn’t mean that belief fully represents that idea today.
 
But he's black and the OP agrees with him. That's all that is required.
 
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