middleagedgamer
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The federal government is tied up with such issues as health care reform, immigration reform, fiscal reform, job creation, and (at the judicial level) gay rights.
However, prison reform can still be a top priority at the state level, especially considering that most states are owned, either by the state itself, or by the county. In fact, according to the website of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, there are only 175 prisons owned by the federal government.
You don't think prisons need reforming? Then, why don't you read about this case right here.
Well, there is one major issue that would reform prison altogether: Prison rape.
And, prison rape can be fixed with just two reforms:
First, get rid of the weights and other work-out materials. In prison, you have the right to exercise, but not beef up. Replace the barbells and weight machines with simple treadmills, and you can get a nice cardio workout.
This would minimize the likelihood - to the extend allowed by the 8th amendment - of any one prisoner being able to overpower a new inmate, who hasn't had the time to beef up to that level. In fact, senior inmates might actually have it tougher, since newer inmates will probably have done a good bit of lifting before they became incarcerated, whereas longer-serving inmates' muscles will have deteriorated, making the infamous "prison b*tch" system a lot harder to maintain.
Second, give each inmate a cell to themselves, and any interaction between the inmates must be constantly supervised by the prison guards.
Thoughts?
I also explained how it could work vice versa, in the new guys' favor.I wouldn't equate it to creating a fairer playing field with new prisoners who haven't had a chance to beef up, though.
Hmmm, do you think that an inmate (especially one who is in there for petty crimes, and REALLY doesn't deserve all the crap that comes with prison rape) could potentially force this kind of prison reform, by taking the prison to court, alleging 8th Amendment violations?I also agree with you that prisons need reform from what I've heard. Prisoners should not have to be afraid for their lives. And they shouldn't have to be beaten up, robbed, extorted, raped or anything else. There must be a way to disband prison gangs. It would seem to me that prison systems should be required to provide a safe environment for prisoners. Anything less than a safe environment is abject failure, IMO.
I also explained how it could work vice versa, in the new guys' favor.
Hmmm, do you think that an inmate (especially one who is in there for petty crimes, and REALLY doesn't deserve all the crap that comes with prison rape) could potentially force this kind of prison reform, by taking the prison to court, alleging 8th Amendment violations?
"I was only incarcerated for driving with a suspended license, and I even pled guilty because I knew I was wrong! I didn't deserve THIS! Having those guys rape me, and the guards not doing anything about it, was a violation of my right against cruel and unusual punishment!"
The court issues an injunction to the prison to reform their policies, and compensates the former inmate for the emotional distress suffered. Prison life gets reformed for everyone else, game over, and everyone's a winner.
Well, considering that this is a matter of facts and politics, we need more than just a layman's opinion.Yeah, I know that's what you meant. That's what I didn't agree with. There's more to prisoner abuse than strength. It's the prison hierarchy, IMO.
What is "aclu?"Maybe the ACLU ought to get involved. Why not the 8th Amendment? Isn't it cruel and unusual punishment to get raped as almost an assured part of one's sentence?
Well, considering that this is a matter of facts and politics, we need more than just a layman's opinion.
How, exactly, do you understand the "prison hierarchy" to work?
What is "aclu?"
Perhaps, but I use logic to come to that conclusion.Isn't it your layman's opinion that weight training and strength is majorly responsible for it?
It's a layman's opinion that is supported by logic.Isn't your whole premise a layman's opinion? Or am I confused?
You sound like your talking from experience, Maggie?!Prison gangs is where I was coming from when I talked about prison hierarchy. There's another aspect to it and that is that the nature of one's crime puts them higher or lower in the pecking order with, for instance, pedophiles being at the very bottom.
Perhaps, but I use logic to come to that conclusion.
Even if there IS a "prison hierarchy," how do you expect the hierarchy to teach new inmates to respect this hierarchy? How else do you expect them to conform to the prison "norm?"
The hierarchy may be the legislative branch, but laws are worthless unless we enforce them. Rape is the most common method of enforcement in this prison hierarchy that you speak of, and, in order to rape a "defiant" inmate, one must be physically stronger, so as to overpower any resistance.
It's a layman's opinion that is supported by logic.
You sound like your talking from experience, Maggie?!
But, anyway, I could care less about the gangs, as long as they have no way of enforcing their will.
rape in American prisonsOnce a man "owns" another - and it is almost always a black "owning" a white - he is property in every sense. He can be rented out, sold or auctioned, told how to dress and talk, and given a woman's name. That this can happen is essentially unknown outside the prison world. "It would amaze you (as it did me) to see human beings bought & sold like shoes," writes a Texan prisoner. "You can buy a kid for 20 or 30 dollars on most wings!!" writes another. "They sell them like cattle."
Which is why I also called for separation of inmates without constant supervision.You don't have to be physically stronger to rape someone in prison. You just have to have enough backing behind you -- be a member of the right gang -- have others fear retaliation. Do you really think that raping a man is all about the inmate doing the raping is stronger? I don't.
One link says you're more apt to be raped in prison if:
You are young.
You come from a middle-class background.
You are white.
You are not street smart or have no gang affiliations.
Physically you are of small stature.
Here's another quote: rape in American prisons
I'm not sure being "beefed up" would save these people. When it's gang rape, which it usually is, what difference does it make how beefed or unbeefed someone is? Three on one wins every time.
And, prison rape can be fixed with just two reforms:
First, get rid of the weights and other work-out materials. In prison, you have the right to exercise, but not beef up. Replace the barbells and weight machines with simple treadmills, and you can get a nice cardio workout.
This would minimize the likelihood - to the extend allowed by the 8th amendment - of any one prisoner being able to overpower a new inmate, who hasn't had the time to beef up to that level. In fact, senior inmates might actually have it tougher, since newer inmates will probably have done a good bit of lifting before they became incarcerated, whereas longer-serving inmates' muscles will have deteriorated, making the infamous "prison b*tch" system a lot harder to maintain.
Second, give each inmate a cell to themselves, and any interaction between the inmates must be constantly supervised by the prison guards.
That's why I gave a second method.There's also power in numbers.
Prove it.Prison rape has always occurred, even before modern-day exercise equipment was invented.
That has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. It's about control.Locked away from women, they get horny.
And it needs to stop. Period.Plus, in all-male environs, a primal instinct takes over, where they feel they have to vie for status by exerting dominance over others. Rape is one way they do this.
That's no excuse.Other primates studied in the wild have exhibited this same behavior. It's obviously innate to men's natures.
Justify that claim.Completely unfeasible.
Just like murder will never be entirely eliminated.and rape will never be entirely eliminated from all-male institutional settings,
Prove it.although it's not necessarily as widespread and prevalent as Hollywood portrays it to be, or as most people believe.
There are a million and a half people in prison in the United States.A very thorough and comprehensive study of the matter by the Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2007 found that slightly less than one in twenty male prisoners is raped or sexually victimized in prison.
Prove it.That's a lot, but you know... a woman stands a greater chance than that of being raped in the free world.
That is DEFINITELY unfeasible.Maybe we should work on "reforming" society altogether.
I got another idea:Im thinking to the first time offender Prison Rape might be the best motivation that person has at NOT becoming a repeat offender...
You can't PREVENT prison rape... just as you can't PREVENT murder.unless you go to a SuperMax prison format (which I think would be a good idea) you arent ever going to stop it.
We already have that. It's called "rehab."Personally...I have a different idea for prison reform. 2 prison systems. System 1 is run like a boot camp. It is a reform prison for non-violent offenders. it teaches discipline, has an education system, skill training, etc. Run just like boot camp. Marine bootcamp...not Air Force boot camp.
Your basically allowing prison rape to go unhindered.System 2...located out in the middle of a deserted area. No guards inside the wires...guards posted on opposite two corners with 50 cal gatlin guns outside of three sets of barbed wire fences and ground sensors. no tunnels...no escaping. Air lift in supplies. Let the inmates set up a community and run the joint. No visitors (OK...Im not heartless...video conferences), no external packages. Rotating guards between prisons and shifts so no alliances could be formed to allow in contraband. 4 man crews reassigned weekly Daily drug esting for the guards and lie detectors. Anyone caught aiding an inmate gets a one way ticket inside. Serve your time and get out. No parole boards. Realistic sentences.Thats pretty much it.
1-Not sure what rehab programs you are familiar with but that is nothing like what I describedWe already have that. It's called "rehab."
Your basically allowing prison rape to go unhindered.
The goal is still the same: Reform, rather than punish.1-Not sure what rehab programs you are familiar with but that is nothing like what I described
You can't do that.2-Yep...pretty much. Or at least policed and governed from within.
The goal is still the same: Reform, rather than punish.
You can't do that.
The 8th Amendment won't let you.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT!Again...reform/rehab in modern systems is a joke. Take it to the Boot Camp level (optional of course..they can always choose system 2) and you might affect positive long term change.
That requires 2/3 of both houses of Congress, and 3/4 of the state legislatures, and no one is going to support such a radical amendment.And thats what constitutional amendments are for.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT!
That requires 2/3 of both houses of Congress, and 3/4 of the state legislatures, and no one is going to support such a radical amendment.
Yeah, I know that's what you meant. That's what I didn't agree with. There's more to prisoner abuse than strength. It's the prison hierarchy, IMO.
Maybe the ACLU ought to get involved. Why not the 8th Amendment? Isn't it cruel and unusual punishment to get raped as almost an assured part of one's sentence?
Your all about demanding some proof from someone....But, the guards can PUNISH the rapist for doing it!
What kind of proof would you accept?Your all about demanding some proof from someone....
Why don't you prove that this isn't being done already?
What kind of proof would you accept?Your all about demanding some proof from someone....
Why don't you prove that this isn't being done already?
What kind of proof would you accept?
And, if you wonder, exactly, what I mean by that, here's a couple of videos where an atheist explains what will cause him to convert to Christianity.
Part 1
YouTube - How to Convert an Atheist Part 1
Part 2
YouTube - How to Convert an Atheist Part 2
Give me a similar list of things that you would accept as proof that prison guards don't already punish inmates for raping.
No, I can probably prove it... if you'll just tell me what types of proof you would accept.Okay, so you have nothing.
In what MANNER would you accept said proof?I wanted proof that prison guards are doing nothing about prison rape incidents.
No, I can probably prove it... if you'll just tell me what types of proof you would accept.
In what MANNER would you accept said proof?
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