- Joined
- Dec 20, 2009
- Messages
- 81,903
- Reaction score
- 45,028
- Location
- USofA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
In reply to cpwill, p - mostly a good response with relevant assertions but with a few problems of positivity where there is little historical support. One problem with the modern understanding of what was written 2000 years ago is a lack of knowledge about the culture of the Eastern Mediterranean at the time. Though Rome ruled militarily, Grecian social norms still played a major role in the culture. What is seen by the modern preachers as sin, so of course they attribute the same moral system to the writer of the Pauline Epistles, was often an accepted way of life.
I will write it again -- We simply don't know for sure what was meant by the word, arsenokoites when it was created.
Statements of unproveable validity - they may be true but we don't know and should not make positive statements
The certainty for Pauls' intent is beyond credulity - which is why the attempt to insert uncertainty, after two millennia, is so very obviously an exercise is eisegesis.
1) "Paul was a fully-trained scholar of the text he is quoting"
Indeed he was - this is one of the most basic facts that we know about Paul - that prior to his conversion he was a trained expert in Judaic law. He studied under Gamaliel, for crying out loud, and was entrusted with missions on behalf of the Chief Priest.
2) "If Paul had wanted to discuss pedophilia, he would have discussed pedophilia and the term wouldn't be arsenokoites, but paiderastia" Why then did Martin Luther, 450 years in the past translate the word as one equal to paedophilia?
1. This is a strawman argument, and not even a good one. What Luther wrote more than a millennia later is irrelevant to the fact that if Paul had wanted to discuss pedophilia, he would have discussed pedophilia and the term wouldn't be arsenokoites, but paiderastia. Luthers' writing would no more change Pauls' intent than these posts would.
2. The German for pedophilia is not Knabenschänder but Kinderschänder.
2A) "the modern sexual revolution, when people began to engage in eisegesis in order to transport modern western sexual morality back into the Bible" - see above Martin Luther comment
See above response.
3) Ooops , this is supposed to be a list of untrue statements but this one by cpwill happens to be true -- "It is also a possibility that there is no Bible from that era"
There was no Bible at the time the Epistles to Timothy and 1 Corinthians were written. It was Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria in 367 CE who first wrote that there were twenty-seven texts which he viewed as canonical - though they may not all be the same texts we know today. It wasn't until the seventh century that the book we know as the New Testament was accepted thru most of Christendom; there still are variations in what is accepted and what is not.

Interestingly, the very first Canonization effort was done by a heretic - Marcion; who tried to cut everything down to the "core" books that he thought were the most right (he hated the Old Testament and didn't like Jewish carry-over into the NT) - and that list of Core Books included the Epistles of Paul. But once we get much past 140 AD, all 27 of those books were already accepted across the Christian church, and only about a small handful were later disputed (authorship of Hebrews, for example, and Peter II)