Police and your rights

[Drowning Man]

This is a great video from the perspective of a law professor and a police detective, about why you should never talk to cops:

YouTube

This is a video of Philip Turner who does a great job of not giving the cops anything on their fishing expedition:

YouTube

One of the biggest rights that you have is to shut the frak up... Unfortunately, people are bad at exercising this right. But you generally have to tell the police very little. In my state (which is a stop and ID state), I am required to tell the police my name and address when detained under suspicion of a crime.

That's it.

No, "Where are you going?" No, "Where are you coming from?" No, "Have you had anything to drink, tonight?"

Nothing.

You don't owe the police common courtesy, they aren't your pals or your friends. Just shut the frak up or at most say, "Respectfully, sir, I'm not going to answer that question"

 

[gino]

Hold on now. While I agree with much that you have said, it can be taken too far. When interacting with the police, I have found that a little common curtesy goes a long way.

 

[justabubba]

Hold on now. While I agree with much that you have said, it can be taken too far. When interacting with the police, I have found that a little common curtesy goes a long way.

no problem if you are innocent

 

[Drowning Man]

Hold on now. While I agree with much that you have said, it can be taken too far. When interacting with the police, I have found that a little common curtesy goes a long way.

I'm just saying that you don't owe it to them. They are looking to write you a ticket, not be your pal.

 

[Drowning Man]

no problem if you are innocent

Wouldn't be so sure...

 

[Moonglow]

This is a great video from the perspective of a law professor and a police detective, about why you should never talk to cops:

YouTube

This is a video of Philip Turner who does a great job of not giving the cops anything on their fishing expedition:

YouTube

One of the biggest rights that you have is to shut the frak up... Unfortunately, people are bad at exercising this right. But you generally have to tell the police very little. In my state (which is a stop and ID state), I am required to tell the police my name and address when detained under suspicion of a crime.

That's it.

No, "Where are you going?" No, "Where are you coming from?" No, "Have you had anything to drink, tonight?"

Nothing.

You don't owe the police common courtesy, they aren't your pals or your friends. Just shut the frak up or at most say, "Respectfully, sir, I'm not going to answer that question"

I refuse to give pigs any information or respect their existence.

 

[gino]

I refuse to give pigs any information or respect their existence.

How the hell do you think our society would go without them? Grow up and get at least a little grounded in reality. Not having some type of police force would turn out country into anarchy. Get realistic or be looked at as a child.

 

[Moonglow]

How the hell do you think our society would go without them? Grow up and get at least a little grounded in reality. Not having some type of police force would turn out country into anarchy. Get realistic or be looked at as a child.

I don't need them and never have.

 

[mike2810]

I refuse to give pigs any information or respect their existence.

What did a pig ever do to you? Since when did bovines become part of law enforcement.:lamo

You say you have never needed law enforcement, yet. Please maintain that doctrine when something happens to you or a family member. Make sure you provide no information to assist them in catching the person who carried out the crime against you. :mrgreen:


(yes I know "pig" is a derogatory term for police officer came to be popular in the 60's / 70's with anti establishment underground groups)

Do you belong to a anti establishment group for you to want to use the term "pig"?

 

[Moonglow]

What did a pig ever do to you? Since when did bovines become part of law enforcement.

You say you have never needed law enforcement, yet. Please maintain that doctrine when something happens to you or a family member. Make sure you provide no information to assist them in catching the person who carried out the crime against you. :mrgreen:

I take care of myself and deal with those that do anything wrong to me, which is probably why I don't have that problem. All pigs have ever done is play petty theft with me, they have never been a benefit to me or my family.

Since when did bovines become part of law enforcement? In the 1960's when they took on the role of gestapo.

 

[mike2810]

I take care of myself and deal with those that do anything wrong to me, which is probably why I don't have that problem. All pigs have ever done is play petty theft with me, they have never been a benefit to me or my family.

So your a tough guy and take the law into your own hands. Good to know. :lamoI would give it a more descriptive label, but I would be breaking DP rules.

Please don't call the fire department either then. Law Enforcement are our brothers and sisters. eace

 

[jamesbyoung]

The anarchist and libertarians can STFU, take a hike, and deal with the cops badly.

The rest of us: be polite and don't answer what you don't want to answer.

 

[Moonglow]

So your a tough guy and take the law into your own hands. Good to know. :lamoI would give it a more descriptive label, but I would be breaking DP rules.

Please don't call the fire department either then. Law Enforcement are our brothers and sisters. eace

I don't plan on calling the fire dept I plan on calling the insurance company...As far as your bros and sisters they can stay away and we'll all get along.

 

[mike2810]

I don't plan on calling the fire dept I plan on calling the insurance company...As far as your bros and sisters they can stay away and we'll all get along.

Sorry you feel that way. Something bad must of happened in your life to make you so bitter.

Have a good one.

 

[Court Jester]

Hold on now. While I agree with much that you have said, it can be taken too far. When interacting with the police, I have found that a little common curtesy goes a long way.

Common courtesy is one thing, but you need to be smart; the job of the police is to investigate, and every police contact is an opportunity to investigate---- including YOU.

Be polite and inform the police officer that you do not wish to make any comments without your lawyer present. And be advised, remaining silent/mute apart from expressly informing the police that you want a lawyer present can mean the police can take your silence/standing mute as evidence of guilt in court under some recent SCOTUS decisions. So again, the key is to expressly advise the police that you want a lawyer during all questioning; questioning which INCLUDES pre custodial (aka: arrest) encounters. Because most people do not understand that a police officer only has to give a Miranda warning if he is arresting you, but everything you say before a Miranda warning can still be used against you.

"Officer, all due respect but I do not wish to say anything on advice of my lawyer without him/her present."

And that is it. Say NOTHING else. Don't talk about where you have been or where you are headed---- even if you are innocent. Because NOTHING you say to the police can ever be used to help you in court--- it can only be used against you.

 

[Common Sense 1]

no problem if you are innocent

Not true!

 

[Thoreau72]

no problem if you are innocent

Or if you happen to have been one of the Central Park Five....

 

[Scorps2000]

Common courtesy is one thing, but you need to be smart; the job of the police is to investigate, and every police contact is an opportunity to investigate---- including YOU.

Be polite and inform the police officer that you do not wish to make any comments without your lawyer present. And be advised, remaining silent/mute apart from expressly informing the police that you want a lawyer present can mean the police can take your silence/standing mute as evidence of guilt in court under some recent SCOTUS decisions. So again, the key is to expressly advise the police that you want a lawyer during all questioning; questioning which INCLUDES pre custodial (aka: arrest) encounters. Because most people do not understand that a police officer only has to give a Miranda warning if he is arresting you, but everything you say before a Miranda warning can still be used against you.

"Officer, all due respect but I do not wish to say anything on advice of my lawyer without him/her present."

And that is it. Say NOTHING else. Don't talk about where you have been or where you are headed---- even if you are innocent. Because NOTHING you say to the police can ever be used to help you in court--- it can only be used against you.

I agree with most of what you said, but please elaborate on "NOTHING you say to the police can ever be used to help you in court--- it can only be used against you".

Is that sarcasm or are you serious?

 

[molten_dragon]

What did a pig ever do to you? Since when did bovines become part of law enforcement.:lamo

Off topic, but pigs are porcine. Cows are bovine.

 

[molten_dragon]

This is a great video from the perspective of a law professor and a police detective, about why you should never talk to cops:

YouTube

This is a video of Philip Turner who does a great job of not giving the cops anything on their fishing expedition:

YouTube

One of the biggest rights that you have is to shut the frak up... Unfortunately, people are bad at exercising this right. But you generally have to tell the police very little. In my state (which is a stop and ID state), I am required to tell the police my name and address when detained under suspicion of a crime.

That's it.

No, "Where are you going?" No, "Where are you coming from?" No, "Have you had anything to drink, tonight?"

Nothing.

You don't owe the police common courtesy, they aren't your pals or your friends. Just shut the frak up or at most say, "Respectfully, sir, I'm not going to answer that question"

It's good advice if used with common sense. If there's a possibility of anything more than a citation involved, shut up and lawyer up. The problem is that some people take it too far, and use this attitude literally any time they interact with police in any fashion. And that kind of attitude is likely going to cause you more problems than it'll prevent.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I'm just saying that you don't owe it to them. They are looking to write you a ticket, not be your pal.

That depends upon circumstances, the why of one being questioned. If it is random safety checks, the immediate goal is to get those under the influence off the road, the same with unsafe vehicles, and secondary detaining or arresting those with outstanding warrants or of a suspicious nature. If the stop and questioning is during the search for suspects during recent criminal activity than another matter. For either, not speaking, refusing to answer questions, makes one suspect, subject to being detained for further questioning as now deemed suspicious. In every state, when stopped while driving you are obligated to show license, registration to any police office, and in many states, proof of insurance. Refusal to speak and or cooperate make you subject to further detainment and investigation. Yes, you have rights, and so do your potential victims or those already victimized by your actions.

On the reasonable assumption you are stopped, questioned and you are not driving under the influence, your vehicle is appropriately "safe," you haven't committed any recent crimes and have no outstanding warrants, a bit of courtesy and cooperation is for your own benefit. Or be belligerent, cut and run, expect a bullet heading your way.

 

[Drowning Man]

That depends upon circumstances, the why of one being questioned. If it is random safety checks, the immediate goal is to get those under the influence off the road, the same with unsafe vehicles, and secondary detaining or arresting those with outstanding warrants or of a suspicious nature. If the stop and questioning is during the search for suspects during recent criminal activity than another matter. For either, not speaking, refusing to answer questions, makes one suspect, subject to being detained for further questioning as now deemed suspicious. In every state, when stopped while driving you are obligated to show license, registration to any police office, and in many states, proof of insurance. Refusal to speak and or cooperate make you subject to further detainment and investigation. Yes, you have rights, and so do your potential victims or those already victimized by your actions.

Yes, you need to comply with the law. But you don't have to do anything more than comply with the law. See the following video:
YouTube

You don't open your window because they can claim that they smell alcohol or drugs. They don't even have to be correct in smelling something...it's enough that they CLAIM to have smelled something. They could be lying and the judge will accept it because there is no way to PROVE that the cops are lying.

Same thing with speaking. They can claim that they felt you were slurring your words. It doesn't matter whether you actually were or not. If the officer says they believe it, that gives them reason to investigate you further.

So, you may be right that some bad cops will subject you to further detainment and investigation if you don't answer...the fact is, you open yourself up for even more investigation by speaking and cooperating.

On the reasonable assumption you are stopped, questioned and you are not driving under the influence, your vehicle is appropriately "safe," you haven't committed any recent crimes and have no outstanding warrants, a bit of courtesy and cooperation is for your own benefit. Or be belligerent, cut and run, expect a bullet heading your way.

I'm not talking about "cutting and running". I am talking about following the law and requiring that the cops do the same.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I am talking about following the law and requiring that the cops do the same.

No you are not. You are speaking about being belligerent to satisfy your own ego and paranoia. Police stops are not only about law, they are also about sense and sensibility. Furthermore, no one has a "right" to drink and drive, or use any impairing substance and drive. Not only are all police efforts to remove such drivers from the road a fact of law, but a fact of what is right for all society. No excuses from you or others justify substance abuse impaired driving.

 

[Drowning Man]

No you are not. You are speaking about being belligerent to satisfy your own ego and paranoia. Police stops are not only about law, they are also about sense and sensibility. Furthermore, no one has a "right" to drink and drive, or use any impairing substance and drive. Not only are all police efforts to remove such drivers from the road a fact of law, but a fact of what is right for all society. No excuses from you or others justify substance abuse impaired driving.

You really feel that standing up for your rights is belligerence? I have a right to remain silent. I have a right to be secure in my person, houses, papers, and effects. Not giving in to the unreasonable demands of cops isn't being belligerent. If I have no duty to do something...and in fact, the Constitution spells out my right NOT to do something, then there is no problem with me not doing it. Period.

And, again, no where in any of this am I defending people in breaking the law. The point is to follow the law...and have the cops follow the law, too.

 

[Drowning Man]

BTW, is it really "uncooperative" to refuse to do something that you're under no obligation to do?

If I walk up to you and said, "Give me your wallet, please", and you refuse. Are you being uncooperative?