Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time'

Celebrity · Mar 4, 2018

Women of the USA: why do you insist on entertaining the fantasy that forced motherhood is bad but forced fatherhood is good?

The Vice President of the United States is calling to take away rights which allow you to choose what to do with your body. This autonomy on a physical level is part of what makes us human. But it is also a choice of how to behave in society, and whether or not we should be parents.

It seems quite clear to me that men and women should both be allowed to have sex with one another without risking a prison sentence, if the other chooses to enforce non-custodial support.

Why do you suppose that women still want to financially abuse men in this way? Are women really so vindictive that they are willing to risk it all just to snub men? Or are they too meek and mild mannered to stand up for themselves?

I know how that feels. I once tried to present evidence in court of the unconstitutionality of forced fatherhood. The judge refused to admit it. It really hurts to go to a place where one expects to find honor, civility, respect, wisdom and justice, and find ignorance and obstinate discrimination in its place. But I feel my situation is slightly different. Whereas I presently am incapable of rightly exercising autonomy, woman can and do disavow motherhood. Therefore, advocacy I do is not in defense of an existing legal protection of men. Unfortunately, I believe women have grown smug and self righteous. They do not understand that their rights are at risk because of their egotistical complacency. If women stood up for what was right for all people, and not just all women, they could speak to a much wider audience.

Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time' | TheHill

KevinKohler · Mar 4, 2018

He's wrong.

Celebrity · Mar 4, 2018

KevinKohler said:
He's wrong.

How so? I guess the statement is a bargaining chip - he's willing to privately acknowledge (at least to himself) that abortion will continue to exist, but publicly says otherwise to shift compromise toward his actual goal. My guess is that it's not a sexist goal, but a racist goal, but that belongs in a different forum.

KevinKohler · Mar 4, 2018

Celebrity said:
How so? I guess the statement is a bargaining chip - he's willing to privately acknowledge (at least to himself) that abortion will continue to exist, but publicly says otherwise to shift compromise toward his actual goal. My guess is that it's not a sexist goal, but a racist goal, but that belongs in a different forum.

Abortion won't end in our lifetime.

Celebrity · Mar 4, 2018

KevinKohler said:
Abortion won't end in our lifetime.

Abortion may not end in our lifetime, but it can and likely will be more restricted. How confident are you that abortion will not end in our lifetime as long as Pence is in a position of power?

Reformedfindlay · Mar 5, 2018

With Gorsuch in place, perhaps one more SCOTUS opening and abortion can very well end.

The foundation for such a right is shaky as hell anyways since it was poofed out of the ninth amendment.

Would've helped the pro-choice cause if they had enumerated the right in an amendment rather than rely on a temporary favorable court.

Of course, abortions will never go away in the literal sense. Nevermind the politics, just look at the economics, when there is a demand for something someone is sure to supply it outside of something unrealistic.

year2late · Mar 5, 2018

Luftwaffe said:
With Gorsuch in place, perhaps one more SCOTUS opening and abortion can very well end.

The foundation for such a right is shaky as hell anyways since it was poofed out of the ninth amendment.

Would've helped the pro-choice cause if they had enumerated the right in an amendment rather than rely on a temporary favorable court.

Of course, abortions will never go away in the literal sense. Nevermind the politics, just look at the economics, when there is a demand for something someone is sure to supply it outside of something unrealistic.

Legal abortion may be limited but hell, the numbers will never be drastically decreased.

Abortions have been going on en mass for millennia. The question is safety for the mother and efficacy of abortion.

Reformedfindlay · Mar 5, 2018

year2late said:
Legal abortion may be limited but hell, the numbers will never be drastically decreased.

Abortions have been going on en mass for millennia. The question is safety for the mother and efficacy of abortion.

Agreed, abortions will never go away.

The only question we have as a society is whether or not we should ban abortions. After all, bans are never guaranteed to stop crime, but they are guaranteed to give the government the power to punish people upon violating such a ban.

I used to be staunch pro-choice, but I see convincing arguments on both sides. Were it up to me, I think this is an issue that ought to be left to the individual states. Definitely something the federal gov has no business banning or endorsing.

Grand Mal · Mar 5, 2018

year2late said:
Legal abortion may be limited but hell, the numbers will never be drastically decreased.

Abortions have been going on en mass for millennia. The question is safety for the mother and efficacy of abortion.

It's strange how conservatives who cite the ineffective drug laws as examples of how futile gun laws would be will say that making abortion illegal will end abortion.

Reformedfindlay · Mar 5, 2018

Grand Mal said:
It's strange how conservatives who cite the ineffective drug laws as examples of how futile gun laws would be will say that making abortion illegal will end abortion.

The argument that bans are nonsense because they are ineffective has always been a moronic one.

The ultimate purpose of a ban is to give the government power to punish an individual when they violate the ban. Banning murder isn't going to stop murder, but it gives the government authority to remove murderers from society permanently, whether through detention or death. If the argument ended at whether or not bans are effective, then why the **** would we ban murder? Why ban anything?

As I've stated before, the question isn't whether or not an abortion ban will end abortions; the question is whether or not we should empower the government to strip the rights of people who obtain abortions.

Of course, as a rule of thumb, most people will comply with a ban, but you will always have a contingent that will be unwilling to comply.

JMR · Mar 5, 2018

Luftwaffe said:
Agreed, abortions will never go away.

The only question we have as a society is whether or not we should ban abortions. After all, bans are never guaranteed to stop crime, but they are guaranteed to give the government the power to punish people upon violating such a ban.

I used to be staunch pro-choice, but I see convincing arguments on both sides. Were it up to me, I think this is an issue that ought to be left to the individual states. Definitely something the federal gov has no business banning or endorsing.

Maybe something the states have no business banning or endorsing either.

Reformedfindlay · Mar 5, 2018

JMR said:
Maybe something the states have no business banning or endorsing either.

Nonsense. Between the states and the federal government, all issues are handled. That's the nature of government in general.

Read the 10th and 14th amendments.

Celebrity · Mar 5, 2018

Luftwaffe said:
Nonsense. Between the states and the federal government, all issues are handled. That's the nature of government in general.

Read the 10th and 14th amendments.

Ladies, this is your wake up call.

Warning bells should be going off right now.

It's time to acknowledge that preservation of your rights requires a similar right for men.

AGENT J · Mar 5, 2018

Celebrity said:
Women of the USA: why do you insist on entertaining the fantasy that forced motherhood is bad but forced fatherhood is good?

The Vice President of the United States is calling to take away rights which allow you to choose what to do with your body. This autonomy on a physical level is part of what makes us human. But it is also a choice of how to behave in society, and whether or not we should be parents.

It seems quite clear to me that men and women should both be allowed to have sex with one another without risking a prison sentence, if the other chooses to enforce non-custodial support.

Why do you suppose that women still want to financially abuse men in this way? Are women really so vindictive that they are willing to risk it all just to snub men? Or are they too meek and mild mannered to stand up for themselves?

I know how that feels. I once tried to present evidence in court of the unconstitutionality of forced fatherhood. The judge refused to admit it. It really hurts to go to a place where one expects to find honor, civility, respect, wisdom and justice, and find ignorance and obstinate discrimination in its place. But I feel my situation is slightly different. Whereas I presently am incapable of rightly exercising autonomy, woman can and do disavow motherhood. Therefore, advocacy I do is not in defense of an existing legal protection of men. Unfortunately, I believe women have grown smug and self righteous. They do not understand that their rights are at risk because of their egotistical complacency. If women stood up for what was right for all people, and not just all women, they could speak to a much wider audience.

Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time' | TheHill

LMAO

Pence is a nutter and abortion will not be ending in the US in our lifetime or any near future. Banning abortion is 3rd world country stuff, countries where theres no rights and freedoms.

As for the other side of it a totally different issues, yes I agree laws for men should bt changed :shrug:

AGENT J · Mar 5, 2018

Celebrity said:
Abortion may not end in our lifetime, but it can and likely will be more restricted. How confident are you that abortion will not end in our lifetime as long as Pence is in a position of power?

100% confident

KevinKohler · Mar 5, 2018

Celebrity said:
Abortion may not end in our lifetime, but it can and likely will be more restricted. How confident are you that abortion will not end in our lifetime as long as Pence is in a position of power?

Extremely confident. It's not up to him, it's up to SCOTUS. And SCOTUS was already pretty clear on the subject.

year2late · Mar 5, 2018

AGENT J said:
100% confident

And I am 100 percent confident that the largest strides in decreasing abortion rates will come with decreasing unwanted pregnancy rates - and that means better access to affordable more reliable contraception. The real decrease will be when men have long term birth control options that are safe and affordable.

year2late · Mar 5, 2018

KevinKohler said:
Extremely confident. It's not up to him, it's up to SCOTUS. And SCOTUS was already pretty clear on the subject.

And frankly, if scotus said "no" to abortions.....they would still occur on a large scale. Just not as safe or completely effective. Your local drug pusher will hook you up should a ban occur.

Or an herbalist will figure out a concoction based on what they used in Biblical times.

The lack of pragmatism by those on the "Pro-life" (pro-fetus) side is amazing.

cuban smokes · Mar 5, 2018

Mike Pence is a moron .............. abortions aint goin nowheres ................

WCH · Mar 5, 2018

Luftwaffe said:
Agreed, abortions will never go away.

The only question we have as a society is whether or not we should ban abortions. After all, bans are never guaranteed to stop crime, but they are guaranteed to give the government the power to punish people upon violating such a ban.

I used to be staunch pro-choice, but I see convincing arguments on both sides. Were it up to me, I think this is an issue that ought to be left to the individual states. Definitely something the federal gov has no business banning or endorsing.

I agree, like with marijuana, it should be left to the states. They're both recreational based.

For medical purposes, it should be a separate issue.

calamity · Mar 5, 2018

Celebrity said:
Women of the USA: why do you insist on entertaining the fantasy that forced motherhood is bad but forced fatherhood is good?

The Vice President of the United States is calling to take away rights which allow you to choose what to do with your body. This autonomy on a physical level is part of what makes us human. But it is also a choice of how to behave in society, and whether or not we should be parents.

It seems quite clear to me that men and women should both be allowed to have sex with one another without risking a prison sentence, if the other chooses to enforce non-custodial support.

Why do you suppose that women still want to financially abuse men in this way? Are women really so vindictive that they are willing to risk it all just to snub men? Or are they too meek and mild mannered to stand up for themselves?

I know how that feels. I once tried to present evidence in court of the unconstitutionality of forced fatherhood. The judge refused to admit it. It really hurts to go to a place where one expects to find honor, civility, respect, wisdom and justice, and find ignorance and obstinate discrimination in its place. But I feel my situation is slightly different. Whereas I presently am incapable of rightly exercising autonomy, woman can and do disavow motherhood. Therefore, advocacy I do is not in defense of an existing legal protection of men. Unfortunately, I believe women have grown smug and self righteous. They do not understand that their rights are at risk because of their egotistical complacency. If women stood up for what was right for all people, and not just all women, they could speak to a much wider audience.

Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time' | TheHill

Pence is a zealot. I expect nothing less to come out of his pie hole.

As to the sidebar in your op: paternal law does appear to be stacked against. If it's your DNA you pay. If it's not your DNA but you were married, you pay. If it's not your DNA but you thought it was for long enough, you pay too.

GDViking · Mar 5, 2018

Luftwaffe said:
Agreed, abortions will never go away.

The only question we have as a society is whether or not we should ban abortions. After all, bans are never guaranteed to stop crime, but they are guaranteed to give the government the power to punish people upon violating such a ban.

I used to be staunch pro-choice, but I see convincing arguments on both sides. Were it up to me, I think this is an issue that ought to be left to the individual states. Definitely something the federal gov has no business banning or endorsing.

I usually don't not get into abortion debates because in my mind I am not equipped with the proper plumbing to have to make a decision of that magnitude.

That is why it should be an Individual choice , not state, not federal.

Why do republicans always want to take away individual choice but insist corporations and banks are unrestricted to do as they ease?

year2late · Mar 5, 2018

GDViking said:
I usually don't not get into abortion debates because in my mind I am not equipped with the proper plumbing to have to make a decision of that magnitude.

That is why it should be an Individual choice , not state, not federal.

Why do republicans always want to take away individual choice but insist corporations and banks are unrestricted to do as they ease?

Yes!

And frankly it is not your decision because you are a man, it is not your decision because you are not the specific person who is needs to make that condition. I am a woman and cannot make that decision for another woman.

Reformedfindlay · Mar 5, 2018

GDViking said:
I usually don't not get into abortion debates because in my mind I am not equipped with the proper plumbing to have to make a decision of that magnitude.

That is why it should be an Individual choice , not state, not federal.

Why do republicans always want to take away individual choice but insist corporations and banks are unrestricted to do as they ease?

"I usually don't... not equipped with the proper plumbing..."

Well if that's how you look at it, you may as well not have an opinion on immigration if you aren't an immigrant, or an opinion on minimum wage if you don't make minimum wage, etc.

I any case, it is either a state or federal issue. As of right now, abortion is a federal issue as it is a federally protected right as deemed by the SCOTUS. Of course, that hasn't been enumerated anywhere, and the minute the SCOTUS turns conservative, it can easily be overturned and left to the federal government or to the states to ban or allow.

Corporations and banks are incapable of obtaining abortions, that's a non sequitur and you know it. I have neither advocated for nor against the individual's capacity to obtain an abortion, I merely advocate for the legal question of whether one can to be decided by the states rather than the federal government.

Reformedfindlay · Mar 5, 2018

year2late said:
And frankly it is not your decision because you are a man

With regards to getting an abortion, DUH.

But if you're saying he has zero political say on whether or not abortions should be governed by state or federal or banned or not banned then you are absolutely 100% wrong.

Pence: Abortion will end in U.S. 'in our time'

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