Palin and the suburbs

[the makeout hobo]

Now we all know that Palin has 2012 ambitions. She's all but made it clear. I was reflecting today on Palin, and the nature of her appeal. It seems to me that the vast majority of her appeal stems from two areas. First is that she is seen as very conservative. The second is that she comes off as very rural/small town. Call it her political appeal and her social appeal, if you will.

Now her political appeal is fairly cut and dry. She's conservative, and that appeals to conservatives. Liberals dislike her positions, and the middle is up for grabs. I think we can all agree that sounds about right.

Her social appeal is more difficult. This is how I see it. If you're from a small town or rural area, she comes off as one of your own. This area is usually heavily republican, so when she was put on the ticket, the base instantly took to her, being mostly based in such areas.

Now if you're not from a small town, let's say the suburbs or the city, she comes off as kinda bizarre. Geographically, she's just not one of yours. Now the cities are so resoundingly blue, that her impact won't be significant there. The suburbs, however, are the current battleground. They sit between urban and rural, and have some characteristics of both. How do you think Sarah Palin will play in the suburban areas? I'll throw in my cents after I get a few comments

 

[niftydrifty]

Now we all know that Palin has 2012 ambitions. She's all but made it clear. I was reflecting today on Palin, and the nature of her appeal. It seems to me that the vast majority of her appeal stems from two areas. First is that she is seen as very conservative. The second is that she comes off as very rural/small town. Call it her political appeal and her social appeal, if you will.

Now her political appeal is fairly cut and dry. She's conservative, and that appeals to conservatives. Liberals dislike her positions, and the middle is up for grabs. I think we can all agree that sounds about right.

Her social appeal is more difficult. This is how I see it. If you're from a small town or rural area, she comes off as one of your own. This area is usually heavily republican, so when she was put on the ticket, the base instantly took to her, being mostly based in such areas.

Now if you're not from a small town, let's say the suburbs or the city, she comes off as kinda bizarre. Geographically, she's just not one of yours. Now the cities are so resoundingly blue, that her impact won't be significant there. The suburbs, however, are the current battleground. They sit between urban and rural, and have some characteristics of both. How do you think Sarah Palin will play in the suburban areas? I'll throw in my cents after I get a few comments

Poorly. she's not politically savvy enough to appeal to much beyond the base. you're mistaken about the middle. the middle rejects her.

Newt had this to say about her recently:

“If Sarah Palin seeks out sophisticated policy advisers and takes sophisticated positions, she will be very formidable”

But those are big ifs. Very big ifs. She wasn't able to appear sophisticated at all in 2008. why will 2012 be any different?

 

[new coup for you]

Suburbanites in swing states are embarrassed to be associated with her.

 

[Cilogy]

Now we all know that Palin has 2012 ambitions. She's all but made it clear. I was reflecting today on Palin, and the nature of her appeal. It seems to me that the vast majority of her appeal stems from two areas. First is that she is seen as very conservative. The second is that she comes off as very rural/small town. Call it her political appeal and her social appeal, if you will.

Now her political appeal is fairly cut and dry. She's conservative, and that appeals to conservatives. Liberals dislike her positions, and the middle is up for grabs. I think we can all agree that sounds about right.

Her social appeal is more difficult. This is how I see it. If you're from a small town or rural area, she comes off as one of your own. This area is usually heavily republican, so when she was put on the ticket, the base instantly took to her, being mostly based in such areas.

Now if you're not from a small town, let's say the suburbs or the city, she comes off as kinda bizarre. Geographically, she's just not one of yours. Now the cities are so resoundingly blue, that her impact won't be significant there. The suburbs, however, are the current battleground. They sit between urban and rural, and have some characteristics of both. How do you think Sarah Palin will play in the suburban areas? I'll throw in my cents after I get a few comments

She seems too conservative too me; so much so that seeking centrism is useless because it seems like she doesn't want to listen to leftist opinion.

Since Obama plans to help mostly the suburban communities, these suburban communities would prefer that approach come 2012 or even 2016. I think Palin would come off to them as "too corporate" (more tax cuts and such for big industries instead of working Americans) or something to that extent.

 

[RiverDad]

1.) People got to know one side of her over a span of 6 weeks.
2.) She was brought onto the McCain ticket in order to shore up the base.
3.) Her designated role was attack dog.
4.) She danced to the tune set by McCain.
5.) She came into the race as the most popular governor in the nation, with an 80% approval rating.
6.) You don't earn that type of approval rating by being an attack dog.
7.) As a person she has her own style, political positions and agenda.
8.) We'll get to know Palin as a candidate over the next 4 years.
9.) We can contrast Palin, the contender, with Palin the McCain surrogate.

As for how the suburbs view her, most people concede that she got the meanest and most vindictive press treatment of any candidate in living memory. The flip side is that she didn't present herself well in some media interviews. The third side is that her keynote address and her debate against Biden drew record crowds. The media image and the underlying substance of Palin are a mixed bag right now.

Also, Palin and Obama present an interesting contrast. They speak to people at two different levels. Obama is very intellectual and that appeals to a certain segment of society and puts off another segment. Palin speaks matter of factly without intellectual embellishment and this approach has it fans and detractors.

The differences between the two go beyond just style but also touch on substantive philosophical and policy differences. Being around a lot of eggheads every day I'm constantly amazed at the ever so refined nonsense that they can convince themselves of. Obama comes across as an egghead and, while he talks pretty, this is no guarantee that the policies he advocates and implements will be sound. Palin talks plainly, and from what I've seen, her policies are sound. She's governed with principle (helping convict her party chair of corruption) and she's governed soundly (putting aside state revenue for a future rainy day.)

I'd rather be governed by someone who understands the constraints of governance and relies on tested and true principles, rather than someone who loves the sound of his own voice and falls in love with his revolutionary ideas.

The fortunes of Palin and Obama will play out over the next four years. We're not holding an election this week and the opinions people hold of both Obama and Palin this week have no bearing on the opinions they'll hold on these two people four years hence.

 

[zimmer]

1.) People got to know one side of her over a span of 6 weeks.
2.) She was brought onto the McCain ticket in order to shore up the base.
3.) Her designated role was attack dog.
4.) She danced to the tune set by McCain.
5.) She came into the race as the most popular governor in the nation, with an 80% approval rating.
6.) You don't earn that type of approval rating by being an attack dog.
7.) As a person she has her own style, political positions and agenda.
8.) We'll get to know Palin as a candidate over the next 4 years.
9.) We can contrast Palin, the contender, with Palin the McCain surrogate.

As for how the suburbs view her, most people concede that she got the meanest and most vindictive press treatment of any candidate in living memory. The flip side is that she didn't present herself well in some media interviews. The third side is that her keynote address and her debate against Biden drew record crowds. The media image and the underlying substance of Palin are a mixed bag right now.

Also, Palin and Obama present an interesting contrast. They speak to people at two different levels. Obama is very intellectual and that appeals to a certain segment of society and puts off another segment. Palin speaks matter of factly without intellectual embellishment and this approach has it fans and detractors.

The differences between the two go beyond just style but also touch on substantive philosophical and policy differences. Being around a lot of eggheads every day I'm constantly amazed at the ever so refined nonsense that they can convince themselves of. Obama comes across as an egghead and, while he talks pretty, this is no guarantee that the policies he advocates and implements will be sound. Palin talks plainly, and from what I've seen, her policies are sound. She's governed with principle (helping convict her party chair of corruption) and she's governed soundly (putting aside state revenue for a future rainy day.)

I'd rather be governed by someone who understands the constraints of governance and relies on tested and true principles, rather than someone who loves the sound of his own voice and falls in love with his revolutionary ideas.

The fortunes of Palin and Obama will play out over the next four years. We're not holding an election this week and the opinions people hold of both Obama and Palin this week have no bearing on the opinions they'll hold on these two people four years hence.

I agree with you on most but the bit in Bold missed the dart board.

Obama doesn't appeal to intellectuals, he appeals to the ignorant. To those caught up in image, the moment, those who think it's cool to put an incompetent into office because his skin color will make a page in the history books. He has no intellectual accomplishments and no success as a community organizer.

How else can he garner enough votes to win on a platform that was hollow, three words long, and not fleshed out for the public to get an understanding of where he really wanted to take the country?

Obama may speak well with a teleprompter, but he's no intellectual. In fact his absolute lack of intellect is beginning to show.

If he were so brilliant, why would he take on Rush Limbaugh in his first days in office? Why would he act as a catalyst for the Republicans to wake up? We know he tried to use Limbaugh as a wedge; this failed miserably.

Why would he be playing the fear card from the bottom of the deck at every turn?

Why is he out chastising Republicans if the stimulus plan is so great? Why not let Republicans sink if Obama's plan is so great?

Why has he had to back down to Europe?

Dead civilians in Pakistan.

Why did he blow the India-Pakistan situation so miserably? Of course unreported by the Obama Propaganda Arm... MSM.

The Indian Express news group reports that on Wednesday Mukherjee "shot down US President-elect Barack Obama’s suggestion that former US President Bill Clinton could prod India and Pakistan into making peace over Kashmir."

The remarks were also reported at KashmirWatch.com.

On Jammu and Kashmir, Mukherjee rejected any third party interference, when asked to comment on the reports that the US president-elect was moving to appoint Bill Clinton as his emissary to settle Kashmir issue. "There was no question of the intervention of third party. Kashmir is a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan. It is part of composite dialogue process," he stressed.

These are some embarrassing stumbles on India and Pakistan and shows that Obama won’t be able to flash his dazzling smile and have the world's leaders just fall at the feet of The One happy to follow his policy ideas.

Why does he think He can tell companies what they can and cannot do with their companies?

Why does he think tax cheats are OK to represent the United States government?

This is the short list.

2010 will be interesting. By then the Obamamania will have worn off and his Mother-in-Law stance over the nation should have worn thin.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Those damn conservatives, Why can't they stop talking about Palin?


:lol:

 

[Thorgasm]

Those damn conservatives, Why can't they stop talking about Palin?


:lol:

Bhkad says she's always newsworthy.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Those damn conservatives, Why can't they stop talking about Palin?


:lol:

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread, or do you just wanna pop in, make smart *** comments, and leave?

Also, riverdad, to go back to the question I actually asked, how do you think Palin will connect to people on a cultural level in the suburbs?

I think it's indicative that I make a thread asking a specific question about Palin and I get:
1 post bashing Palin
2 post actually addressing the question
1 generic "Palin's Great" post that mentions the question, then doesn't actually answer it
1 post just viciously bashing Obama
and 2 snark posts. I love DP, I really do.:roll:

 

[Thorgasm]

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread, or do you just wanna pop in, make smart *** comments, and leave?

Also, riverdad, to go back to the question I actually asked, how do you think Palin will connect to people on a cultural level in the suburbs?

I think it's indicative that I make a thread asking a specific question about Palin and I get:
1 post bashing Palin
2 post actually addressing the question
1 generic "Palin's Great" post that mentions the question, then doesn't actually answer it
1 post just viciously bashing Obama
and 2 snark posts. I love DP, I really do.:roll:

I do think she does have a spot in the suburbs with the busybodies and soccer moms.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread, or do you just wanna pop in, make smart *** comments, and leave?

So much fail, so little time.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-el...bringing-chicago-daly-machine-whitehouse.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...obama-s-community-organizer-experience-2.html



And I am sure I could fine plenty more.


So what is it? You can dish it, but will have a tantrum if it get's thrown back in your face? :lol:


Hell, I was actually commenting on the Captain claiming it was conservatives who could not let Palin go. Kinda a running joke. But you took it as an excuse to throw a tantrum.....


Advice: If you are going to give it, Expect to get it.

Also, riverdad, to go back to the question I actually asked, how do you think Palin will connect to people on a cultural level in the suburbs?

I think it's indicative that I make a thread asking a specific question about Palin and I get:
1 post bashing Palin
2 post actually addressing the question
1 generic "Palin's Great" post that mentions the question, then doesn't actually answer it
1 post just viciously bashing Obama
and 2 snark posts. I love DP, I really do.:roll:

Coming from one of the posters who usually behaves as you listed in any number of my Obama threads all I may suggest to you is to man up and stop crying.



:mrgreen::2wave:

 

[Thorgasm]

If people don't stop crying about people crying I am going to cry.

 

[American]

The first thing Palin should do is take a trip to Africa, on some business/humanitarian mission. This gives her African expertise and foreign policy experience. It also gets rid of the liberal notion of flyover country bumpkinism. She needs to bring some manufacturing business to Alaska so she can say she understands the plight of factory workers. She needs to continue promoting diverse energy development. She need to brush up her speaking capability, and pick some issue to make her own for the next election. Make making govt smaller. People will be tired of big govt by 2012.

 

[the makeout hobo]

So much fail, so little time.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-el...bringing-chicago-daly-machine-whitehouse.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...obama-s-community-organizer-experience-2.html



And I am sure I could fine plenty more.


So what is it? You can dish it, but will have a tantrum if it get's thrown back in your face? :lol:


Hell, I was actually commenting on the Captain claiming it was conservatives who could not let Palin go. Kinda a running joke. But you took it as an excuse to through a tantrum.....


Advise: If you are going to give it, Expect to get it.










Coming from one of the posters who usually behave as you listed in any number of my Obama threads all I may suggest to you is to man up and stop crying.



:mrgreen::2wave:

How is asking you to discuss the point of the thread a temper tantrum, exactly? This seems hardly like an unreasonable request to me.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

How is asking you to discuss the point of the thread a temper tantrum, exactly? This seems hardly like an unreasonable request to me.

I clearly showed your hypocrisy.


You bitched about people and how they responded to your thread, I demonstrated 2 out of I am sure several threads where you engage in the exact same behavior you are complaining about.



Palin will do well in the suburbs next go round as the senate just passed porkzilla.....

The start of Obama's big fail has begun.

 

[the makeout hobo]

The first thing Palin should do is take a trip to Africa, on some business/humanitarian mission. This gives her African expertise and foreign policy experience. It also gets rid of the liberal notion of flyover country bumpkinism. She needs to bring some manufacturing business to Alaska so she can say she understands the plight of factory workers. She needs to continue promoting diverse energy development. She need to brush up her speaking capability, and pick some issue to make her own for the next election. Make making govt smaller. People will be tired of big govt by 2012.

I don't think it's so much as people see her as a bumpkin, it's that they don't see her as someone they can relate to. I mean, how many people in suburban areas go moose hunting, or have spouses that drive a snow mobile? She just doesn't come off as someone you might live next to. And then she just plays up her "folksy charm", making the situation even more divided. I think that's what really will be striking against her, not some ill-formed notion that she's hated for being a working mom or something.

 

[the makeout hobo]

I clearly showed your hypocrisy.
Palin will do well in the suburbs next go round as the senate just passed porkzilla.....

The start of Obama's big fail has begun.

What makes you think Palin will play well in the suburbs?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

What makes you think Palin will play well in the suburbs?

Palin speaks of small government, and does not come off as the elitist Obama does.


That said, since porkzilla will become law, and it will cause hell, she will be in position to be a true canidate of "change", and small government. I think given this, she will do well with the suburbs.




now I hope you remember this is how you show self control the next time you want to throw a tantrum in one of my Obama threads.


:2wave:

 

[Thorgasm]

What makes you think Palin will play well in the suburbs?

Working mothers and PTA members will identify with her as well.

 

[American]

I don't think it's so much as people see her as a bumpkin, it's that they don't see her as someone they can relate to. I mean, how many people in suburban areas go moose hunting, or have spouses that drive a snow mobile? She just doesn't come off as someone you might live next to. And then she just plays up her "folksy charm", making the situation even more divided. I think that's what really will be striking against her, not some ill-formed notion that she's hated for being a working mom or something.

I have no problem relating to her, regardless of her hobbies.

 

[Zyphlin]

Moderator's Warning:

Cut the snide personal attacks and constant asides to the conversation. More talking about the subject, less attacking posters.

 

[Zyphlin]

I think this is a pretty good thread an a very objective, well thoughtout starting point. Its sad, but not unexpected, to see people on both sides trying to turn this into a typical mudslinging match instead of actually discussing the subject.

Your notion about her appealing to the conservative base and to rural/small town folk who are traditional republican is exactly the reason she was a good pick for McCain, because he DIDN'T appeal to that base and he NEEDED them to even survive long enough to get to the election let alone possibly be thought of as having a viable chance. Unfortunantely, he had been trying...and failing...at being "conservative" for so long during the campaign that it had killed his credibility with moderates while winning him few conservatives.

I disagree with some of the liberals on this thread just coming out and making blatant statements that somehow all independents and moderates dislike her. This is simply not the case, and no polls or evidence reveals this. I do think at the moment, TRUE moderates and TRUE Independents likely lean slightly away from her as during this campaign she was made to look like an absolute extremist by the media.

I think that liberal leaning "moderates" and "independents" likely are going to be adverse to her, with conservatives leaning the other way. I think this website is a poor indication of this as many "Independents" and "moderates" here are far more squarely liberal in 90% of their views yet won't self identify as that. Which is perfectly fine, to each their own, but they don't represent the average "moderate" in the country just cause they put a lean that is different than their actual views.

I think suburbanite women that are mothers are likely to continue to like her for the same reason you say people from smaller towns will, its that identifable quality. Here's a working mom who has found a way to balance political ambitions and a family and, at least to some people, comes off very real in that way. I think she'll have a harder time with suburbanite males that will likely be more apt to latch onto the things to joke about her on. I don't think currently her aura and presentation is professional enough to inspire an average suburban moderate male to go from looking at her as a novelty to something that's respectable.

However, 4 years is a long time. Barack Obama gave his speech at the 2004 DNC, without ever having a federal position and unarguably less experience pertinent to the job of the President than Sarah Palin has currently. 4 years later, he is our President.

I think many of her issues came from the way McCain picked her, which seemed very last minute. She's a governor of a somewhat isolated state, and certain matters that are important to the national stage are not foremost concerns for her. I have far less issues with that with a VP then a Pres, but that's neither here nor there. She's now got 4 years to do many different things. She needs to brush up on things like international politics, economy on a national level, immigration, etc. As she learns more on these things she needs to get her views set and start voicing them, be it through print, radio, or TV whenever she can. Stop commenting on every little thing, but focus on the important ones. She needs to stay in the publics mind while not over saturating it over these next 4 years. I agree with Newt, get some good advisors behind her and she'll be fine. My difference is I don't think that's a big "If", I don't think it'll be that difficult for her to do.

Will she manage to do this? Who knows. But the fact that its only generally some of the more firmly left wing people that generally out and out hate her, with conservatives often loving her, and those TRULY in the middle having a mix of feelings leads me to believe she has as much a chance as any others in the Republican party atm.

 

[RiverDad]

I don't think it's so much as people see her as a bumpkin, it's that they don't see her as someone they can relate to. I mean, how many people in suburban areas go moose hunting, or have spouses that drive a snow mobile?

Here again she shares a symbolic characteristics with Obama. He too is someone that people have a hard time relating to. Most people don't know someone who was born Muslim but converted to Christianity, who went to an exclusive Hawaiian prep school, who was shepherded into two Ivy League schools, who got a contract to write an autobiography because he was Black, who got an appointment to a prestigious law school because he was Black, who was "community organizer, who ran as a socialist, or someone who involves themselves in corruption when buying his home.

Obama is as far removed from suburban normality as is Palin. Both though represent symbols that resonate with certain segments, bimodal if you will, of suburbia. Obama represents the multicultural man, the exotic, the promise, though not the reality, of the future. He speaks to suburbanites's hopes of a healing of the racial wound, of reforming Black culture, and of the world sharing the love they have for Obama. Palin speaks to suburbanite's affirmation of tried and true American values, in that she is a self-made woman who didn't marry into power or accumulate power after inheriting it. She reminds people of the toughness of life on the frontier, she reminds people that America is still a meritocracy where one doesn't need to attend Harvard in order to advance to high station and she probably inspires hope in that suburbanites realize that if she can rise to high station then so too can their children even if they don't attend posh private schools and elite universities.

If you're under the impression that suburbanites are disavowing any support for Palin then I would guess that you're drawing 1.) from a biased sample, 2.) and not correcting for the Obama-mania. As a politician Palin has a very rare, but extremely valuable, gift, she draws interest. Her challenge is to shift her role away from designated attack dog to becoming a champion of ideas that inspire voters. This shouldn't be too hard to accomplish in that she's done it before. I took the time to watch her televised debate performances from the Alaska Gubernatorial election. She's not lacking as a visionary nor as a policy wonk. I'd say that Obama, if plunked down into Alaska politics, on very short notice, would have fared as Palin fared in the general election, in that he would be unprepared AT THAT SPECIFIC TIME. Palin has 4 years to follow Newt's advice and the image of her that was set over the 6 week span of the election cycle will erode as people see her in a new light. Images can be overcome and all you need do to confirm this is recall a Bedtime For Bonzo actor who became President. Sure, some die-hard Leftists could never let go of the past image and mocked him, but they're as irrational as KKK members who will hate Obama because he's Black. You can't reason with people like this and we shouldn't give their opinions too much credence.

Will she manage to do this? Who knows. But the fact that its only generally some of the more firmly left wing people that generally out and out hate her, with conservatives often loving her, and those TRULY in the middle having a mix of feelings leads me to believe she has as much a chance as any others in the Republican party atm.

Don't underestimate the power of Leftist hatred of Palin to act as a benediction for the vast swath of middle America. Anything that Leftists hate with a visceral passion is often interpreted as something that America should embrace.

 

[American]

Here again she shares a symbolic characteristics with Obama. He too is someone that people have a hard time relating to. Most people don't know someone who was born Muslim but converted to Christianity, who went to an exclusive Hawaiian prep school, who was shepherded into two Ivy League schools, who got a contract to write an autobiography because he was Black, who got an appointment to a prestigious law school because he was Black, who was "community organizer, who ran as a socialist, or someone who involves themselves in corruption when buying his home.

Obama is as far removed from suburban normality as is Palin. Both though represent symbols that resonate with certain segments, bimodal if you will, of suburbia. Obama represents the multicultural man, the exotic, the promise, though not the reality, of the future. He speaks to suburbanites's hopes of a healing of the racial wound, of reforming Black culture, and of the world sharing the love they have for Obama. Palin speaks to suburbanite's affirmation of tried and true American values, in that she is a self-made woman who didn't marry into power or accumulate power after inheriting it. She reminds people of the toughness of life on the frontier, she reminds people that America is still a meritocracy where one doesn't need to attend Harvard in order to advance to high station and she probably inspires hope in that suburbanites realize that if she can rise to high station then so too can their children even if they don't attend posh private schools and elite universities.

If you're under the impression that suburbanites are disavowing any support for Palin then I would guess that you're drawing 1.) from a biased sample, 2.) and not correcting for the Obama-mania. As a politician Palin has a very rare, but extremely valuable, gift, she draws interest. Her challenge is to shift her role away from designated attack dog to becoming a champion of ideas that inspire voters. This shouldn't be too hard to accomplish in that she's done it before. I took the time to watch her televised debate performances from the Alaska Gubernatorial election. She's not lacking as a visionary nor as a policy wonk. I'd say that Obama, if plunked down into Alaska politics, on very short notice, would have fared as Palin fared in the general election, in that he would be unprepared AT THAT SPECIFIC TIME. Palin has 4 years to follow Newt's advice and the image of her that was set over the 6 week span of the election cycle will erode as people see her in a new light. Images can be overcome and all you need do to confirm this is recall a Bedtime For Bonzo actor who became President. Sure, some die-hard Leftists could never let go of the past image and mocked him, but they're as irrational as KKK members who will hate Obama because he's Black. You can't reason with people like this and we shouldn't give their opinions too much credence.



Don't underestimate the power of Leftist hatred of Palin to act as a benediction for the vast swath of middle America. Anything that Leftists hate with a visceral passion is often interpreted as something that America should embrace.

I'll take this as a confirmation of my post. :mrgreen:

 

[sazerac]

The way the Left showed such contempt for a self made small town American woman was bizarre, to say the least.

It showed how out of touch they are with the typical American.