Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......[W:37]

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

a couple of points:
1. the same could be said of bibi's very apparent, significant deficiencies
2. abbas was the designated leader of the Palestinian people as determined by the USA and israel ... why should the Palestinian people then find him to be a credible representative of the Palestinian cause


let's see, israel finds returning land ownership to its displaced original owners an illegitimate requirement, while insisting that the Palestinians, that have already acknowledged the legitimacy of the israeli state, now must accept israel to be a jewish state and that is found to be a reasonable requirement

Biden, during his 2010 visit, asks Abbas to look him in the eye and promise he can make peace with Israel, and Abbas refuses.

And that's the end of that.

It is so blatantly and obviously justifiable and reasonable that ther Palestinians must recognize Israel as a sovereign state of the Jews, and it is so blindingly obviously a 100% cost free "concession" if the Palestinians didn't also have an intention of taking over Israel, that all of this phony indignation anti-Israel folks have at this "demand" is beyond entertaining.

Like you guys know that the Palestinians' lies have been called out and you know it is absolutely fatal to the anti-Israel positions you are pushing, that you just have to keep screaming about it in the hopes that your indignation compensates for the carpet being pulled out from under you so completely.

What's worse for the actual "pro-Palestinians" (like, e.g., serenity) that don't actually have animus to Israel but do actually care about the well being of the Palestinians, is that those folks MUST know that this complete and utter refusal means that what they want - an independent palestinian state at peace with the Jews - is not what the Palestinian leadership actually wants. It's got to be pretty demoralizing for those folks to realize that the Palestinian leadership has its eye on a prize completely different than what they have been selling to western folks for so many years.

And yeah, to keep these guys in their camp, the rabid anti-Israel folks need to make it seem like the jews demanding recognition of their state is beyond the pale ands means that the JEWS have no interest in peace. But of course this is Orwellian bizzarro world territory, where the Palestinians rejecting a state for the Jews implies that the Jews are unwilling to make peace with the Palestinians.

it doesn't work, but it makes the anti-Israel crowd look silly (and desperate) every time they trot it out.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

but israel holds ALL of the cards to peace
all it needs to do is withdraw into its own UN identified borders and quit occupying the lands of another

and there will be peace

You know that is a complete and total lie, don't you?

Dont you?!?

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

"Fatah officials say Palestinian unity government has not yet resigned and talks continue, according to Israel Radio report - @Jerusalem_Post"
Fatah officials say Palestinian unity government has not yet resigned and talks continue, according to Israel Radio report - @Jerusalem_Post - breakingnews.com

Then found this: "RAMALLAH, West Bank – Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas asked Prime Minister Rami Hamdalla to postpone the resignation of the unity government announced on Wednesday until Monday’s meeting of the executive committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization, or PLO, sources from the Palestinian presidency told Efe. Abbas would take the four-day extension to consult with parties from the PLO and Hamas, a partner in the unity government that was established a year ago.
" Latin American Herald Tribune - Abbas Asks Palestine Unity Government to Postpone Resignation Until Monday

Im essentially trusting on the Latin American Herald Tribune right now essentially because its from Caracas and Venezuela and the PLO have very close ties.

Wow, that's a relief....

Wait a minute. Pretty sure it doesn't matter either way. Nothing good can come of Hamas being part of the Palestinian government, and nothing positive would develop if it was only Abbas and his Fatah rejectionist terrorists running the Palestinian government.

This is all very much about nothing.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

You know that is a complete and total lie, don't you?

Dont you?!?

no
it is based on reason and logic

why would the Palestinians and their slingshots attack the might of the IDF

the lie is that israeli actions to occupy the Palestinian lands are for purposes other than expanding israel's own boundaries

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

no
it is based on reason and logic

why would the Palestinians and their slingshots attack the might of the IDF

Slingshots?

Right.

Propagandize, much?

But let's play some what ifs shall we?

So presumably your little "Israel must suimply pull out" nonsense would involve no lingering presence and no control over border and no blockades, right? After all, those things would just be used to justify continued violence.

So a complete and total pull out with nno residual control or presence (e.g., South Lebanon).

So what do you think happens then? Iran doesn't do in the WB what it did with Hezbollah in Lebanon? Why in the world would you believe that?

Hamas doesn't massivly increase importation of heavy weapons and missles in Gaza? Again, why would you possibly believe that?

And what is to stop the weak Palestinian government in the WB falling to hamas or Isis? What's that? Nothing?
Because the answer is nothing.

Unilateral disengagement brought continued violence from Lebanon and continued violence from Gaza. And that violence exists because Israel exists. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your entire premise is based on what YOU BELIEVE is the Palestinians objectives and a fantasy roll playing view on how real life would unfold once you get what you want, where your own desires get to replace the desires of the people who live there and who acvtually are making the decisions. But what you believe is not supported by ANY evidence, while here in real life it is blindingly obvious that the Palestinians want Israel, not independence (incidentally, how does your little unilateral disengagement approach address the "right of return"?), that the Palestinian leadership has no interest in giving up on its efforts to take Israel, and that any Palestinian state would either be taken over by anti-Israel foreign interests supporting rejectionist Palestinian factions, or straight up openly genocidal fanatics who form part of a regional imperialist genocidal movement.

At this point, there is absolutely no reason to take anything you have to say seriously. Because you deal in fantasy (fantasy about the Palestinians' aspirations and fantasy about how things would actually work in real life). The Jews cannot afford and have no reason to need to rely on your fantasies coming true for the continued survival of their state.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

Wow, that's a relief....

Wait a minute. Pretty sure it doesn't matter either way. Nothing good can come of Hamas being part of the Palestinian government, and nothing positive would develop if it was only Abbas and his Fatah rejectionist terrorists running the Palestinian government.

This is all very much about nothing.

If you look at the unified government you would know its ran by technocrats, not a single Hamas member apart in its operations. But I forget every Palestinian is a terrorist to you :roll:

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

If you look at the unified government you would know its ran by technocrats, not a single Hamas member apart in its operations. But I forget every Palestinian is a terrorist to you :roll:

So then the whole exercise STILL doesn't matter, because, as you say, Hamas has no influence over the government anyways, and neither does Fatah. Only "technocrats".

Right?

Palestinian kibuki theatre?

Which technocrat is responsible for making peace with the Jews, incidentally?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

So then the whole exercise STILL doesn't matter, because, as you say, Hamas has no influence over the government anyways, and neither does Fatah. Only "technocrats".

The whole "exercise"? What do you mean by this? And the PM of the unified government Hamdallah is a member of Fatah. All other ministers are not members of a political party.

Palestinian kibuki theatre?

No idea what this means.

Which technocrat is responsible for making peace with the Jews, incidentally?

I imagine that would fall on the shoulders of the foreign minister, Riyad al-Maliki who recently in the Czech Republic expressed both Palestine and Israel are looking for ways to start peace talks again Palestinians for peace talks with Israel, says Maliki in Prague | Prague Monitor

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

The whole "exercise"? What do you mean by this?

I mean the farce about the government "resigning" or not resigning or Hamas being a part of the government or not a part of the government.

How are you part of a government if you don't have any imputs into any of the decisions of that govenrment at all?

No idea what this means.

One Party State: Political Kabuki: A Definition

Going through the motions to pretend a fiction is reality when everybody knows what you are saying and doing is completely irrelevant and detached from reality as it exists.

I imagine that would fall on the shoulders of the foreign minister, Riyad al-Maliki who recently in the Czech Republic expressed both Palestine and Israel are looking for ways to start peace talks again Palestinians for peace talks with Israel, says Maliki in Prague | Prague Monitor

Right. So he was lying about the views of the Palestinian leadership.

So business as usual.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

I mean the farce about the government "resigning" or not resigning or Hamas being a part of the government or not a part of the government.

So why "wouldnt it matter"?

How are you part of a government if you don't have any imputs into any of the decisions of that govenrment at all?

Because its an interim government agreed to, AKA a temporary government. Essentially both sides agreed to give up governing authority to these technocrats in hope they would unite Gaza and the West Bank again and allow a time table for elections. All of which have been troubled in moving forward as of now, thus the talks of possibly dissolving the unity gov.

One Party State: Political Kabuki: A Definition

Going through the motions to pretend a fiction is reality when everybody knows what you are saying and doing is completely irrelevant and detached from reality as it exists.

So dont unite or attempt to unite the West Bank and Gaza again and move forward with elections? So remain with the status quo and dont even attempt to change?

Right. So he was lying about the views of the Palestinian leadership.

So business as usual.

Oh brother. As always, "Palestinians are always wrong, everything they do is a farce, and they are all terrorists" :roll:

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

So why "wouldnt it matter"?

This isn't hard.

You cannot have it both ways.

Either Hamas' participating in the "unity government" matters, or it doesn't.

If the government is exactly the same and would function exactly the same, and Hamas would have the same influence over the govenrment, regardless of whether Hamas is "part of a unity governemtn" or not, then the very fact of the unity government is irrelevant.

Therm being in it or out of it does nothing, so any hand wringing about them being in or out is also meaningless.

On the other hand, if Hamas IS actually part of the government and influences the govenrment, then it would make a difference. And then of course the government would be influenced by a terrorist organization (ignoring for the moment that Fatah is also a terrorist organization)

So which is it?

Because its an interim government agreed to, AKA a temporary government. Essentially both sides agreed to give up governing authority to these technocrats in hope they would unite Gaza and the West Bank again and allow a time table for elections. All of which have been troubled in moving forward as of now, thus the talks of possibly dissolving the unity gov.

LOL. That's what happened?

Israel says it thwarted Hamas coup attempt on Palestinian president | New York Post

So the unity government thing was solidified in April and in August a coup was thwarted that would have involved Hamas overthrowing Fatah in the WB.

That translates to you that Hamas was hoping to work to a timeline for elections?

Part of the reason discussing IP issues is so maddening is that the Palestinian side feels no need to actually be bound by reality when making statemens of fact or developing arguments or positions.

So dont unite or attempt to unite the West Bank and Gaza again and move forward with elections? So remain with the status quo and dont even attempt to change?

Who is trying to change? You?

Hamas isn't. Fatah isn't, they just think this is a better way to maintain control for the time being. Again, you are trying to bring an objective lens to analyzing what is, in essence, a fairy tale. Like in that movie AI when the sex robot guy told the machine to combine real life facts with the world of make believe to have a question answered (great movie incidentally. "don't burn me, I'm a real boy, I'm David").

Oh brother. As always, "Palestinians are always wrong, everything they do is a farce, and they are all terrorists" :roll:

Who is "they all"? Their leadership?

Then, yes.

 

[Gina]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

Moderator's Warning:

The topic is not other posters. Please stick to addressing the topic and leave each other out of it.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Palestinian Unity Government 'Resigns'......

This isn't hard.

You cannot have it both ways.

What? You are claiming Hamas resigning "doesnt matter" or Fatah resigning "doesnt matter".... Im simply asking why "wouldnt it matter"?

Either Hamas' participating in the "unity government" matters, or it doesn't.

Can you look at the unity government cabinet please? Please go ahead and look at the cabinet....

If the government is exactly the same and would function exactly the same, and Hamas would have the same influence over the govenrment, regardless of whether Hamas is "part of a unity governemtn" or not, then the very fact of the unity government is irrelevant.

Its a mutually agreement to two disagreeing parties. If one party pulls out how would that "not matter"?

Therm being in it or out of it does nothing, so any hand wringing about them being in or out is also meaningless.
On the other hand, if Hamas IS actually part of the government and influences the govenrment, then it would make a difference. And then of course the government would be influenced by a terrorist organization (ignoring for the moment that Fatah is also a terrorist organization)

So which is it?

:doh You cant be serious. Do you not know how interim governments work? Why is it so hard for you to understand that its a mutual agreement? Two parties came to an agreement and now either one or both parties is making threats to end the agreement based off disagreements...

LOL. That's what happened?

What happened? Well you would know if you read the OP. I guess I'll have to help ya out: "Officials said the move had been under discussion for several months because of the cabinet's inability to operate in Hamas-dominated Gaza."
--Thats just one source.

Israel says it thwarted Hamas coup attempt on Palestinian president | New York Post

Good. But if your trying to connect the two parties of the unified gov in Palestine you would notice your source says there is no connection: "The Hamas cell in Gaza had no involvement in the plot, sources told the Jerusalem Post."

So the unity government thing was solidified in April and in August a coup was thwarted that would have involved Hamas overthrowing Fatah in the WB.

It was formed in June.

That translates to you that Hamas was hoping to work to a timeline for elections?

To me? No. I still dont believe Hamas is totally committee behind elections, that does not mean I'm against the unified government. Connectivity, and diplomacy between the separate enclaves, and working towards the goal of elections is always a good thing rather than what we had before.

Part of the reason discussing IP issues is so maddening is that the Palestinian side feels no need to actually be bound by reality when making statemens of fact or developing arguments or positions.

:lamo What is your solution? Seriously?

Who is trying to change? You?

No. The unity government. Negotiators. The UN, EU, US, and even Israel.

Hamas isn't. Fatah isn't, they just think this is a better way to maintain control for the time being. Again, you are trying to bring an objective lens to analyzing what is, in essence, a fairy tale. Like in that movie AI when the sex robot guy told the machine to combine real life facts with the world of make believe to have a question answered (great movie incidentally. "don't burn me, I'm a real boy, I'm David").

:doh"Palestine bad. Palestine bad"

Who is "they all"? Their leadership?

Then, yes.

:doh:doh
And some wonder why such a conflict exists. "Youre a terrorists! No youre a terrorist! No your whole leadership are terrorists!" Both sides constantly yelling at each other. This drowns out legitimate criticisms and progress on difficult issues.