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Our Country Turned Against Us

Well, when people start looking to government to save them, rather than provide basic services and a legal framework, it's what you end up with. The nature of government is, and always has been, to grow in power. The people are the only defense against that, and our people have become collectively weak and ignorant.
 

Unfortunately, there is doubt amoung liberal crazies...


Exactly. We need to get back to square one, limit government, and put the power back to the people.
 

It's tough to blame Obama for this when this program started under G.W. Bush as part of the War on Terror.

I know a lot of people are getting tired of Bush being blamed for what goes on during Obama's administration, but it's important to point out.

The reason why is because the Republicans aren't going to advocate against this either, and so are no real alternative to the Democrats. If anything, GOP politicians are more likely to double down and do even more of this under the guise that it keeps the United States safe.

And, if you ask me, that's the real shame of it all.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Exactly. We need to get back to square one, limit government, and put the power back to the people.
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I hope you advocate the people being able to pass or repeal federal laws via referendum, because that's the only practical way the people have to limit the power granted to their representatives.
 
samsmart said:
I hope you advocate the people being able to pass or repeal federal laws via referendum, because that's the only practical way the people have to limit the power granted to their representatives.
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No, the federal government has overstepped the Constitution for decades.
 
I get glimpses of a drone passing through the heavy rain around my house...
 
it's funny to see half of the country finally realize what the patriot act does while much of the other half forgets. i remember long arguments with other right wingers when i was a right winger. i asked them if they'd support the patriot act under a dem presidency; they responded with "if you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?" lol

more on topic, this one is almost certainly related to the Boston bull****. on one hand, Obama ran on getting rid of stuff like this. on the other, if his administration didn't do everything it could, he would be eviscerated for that, too; same with Bush. i'll take the convenient position that i'm against this kind of intelligence gathering anyway, and i'll add that i'm glad that i'm not president. i don't know why in the hell anyone would actually want that job.
 
Seems this has been going on longer than Obama, so not sure how it falls all on him. However, for years the those that have been criticizing things like the Patriot have said it will open doors for the government to abuse it's power. Now we are seeing it in the light. Thank you Patriot Act supporters!
 
davidtaylorjr said:
No, the federal government has overstepped the Constitution for decades.
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And what mechanism do you hope to use to keep the federal government within Constitutional bounds?
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Supposedly the Supreme Court, but they failed.
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Which means the mechanisms currently within the Constitution aren't adequate.

Which means the Constitution needs some other mechanism added to it to ensure the prevention of such overreach.

Do you have an additional mechanism in mind?
 
samsmart said:
Which means the mechanisms currently within the Constitution aren't adequate.

Which means the Constitution needs some other mechanism added to it to ensure the prevention of such overreach.

Do you have an additional mechanism in mind?
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No, other than the states nullifying decisions made by the Federal Government.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
No, other than the states nullifying decisions made by the Federal Government.
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Which would mean that instead of overstep of rights by the federal government people would suffer from overstep of rights by the state governments.

Which is no real solution either.
 
samsmart said:
Which would mean that instead of overstep of rights by the federal government people would suffer from overstep of rights by the state governments.

Which is no real solution either.
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What would your solution be then?
 
davidtaylorjr said:
What would your solution be then?
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To fulfill the 10th Amendment which says that power not granted to the federal government are granted to the people and to the states.

There already exists processes by which the state governments may exercise their powers guaranteed by the 10th Amendment.

But there is no process by which the people may exercise their powers guaranteed by the 10th Amendment.

And so I would detail a process in which the people may hold national referendums to pass federal laws or to repeal federal laws passed by Congress. Such popular referendums would pass by a majority of national popular voters and also if they passed by popular vote within a majority of states.
 

Is he not the President? Than yes, he is to blame. FDR was an ass and made owning gold illegal, Ford reversed his asininity. Also, Obama's vote on FISA was the tell tale sign back before he was elected that he was not who he seemed. I saw it, still voted for him admittedly figuring it was political posture but, I honestly didn't think he'd turn out like this.

Oh and of course, the GOP are the Lenin to the Democrat's Stalin. I've said for years they're both working in cahoots...
 
samsmart said:
I hope you advocate the people being able to pass or repeal federal laws via referendum, because that's the only practical way the people have to limit the power granted to their representatives.
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I agree with repeal by referendum, but not passing laws. California is screwed up because the local parties have figured out how to game that type system. I would like to see a nation wide version of Iowa's redistricting policy.

Redistricting in Iowa - Ballotpedia
 

I would rather we abolish single-member districts and just have House seats divided via a state-wide party proportional system.

That way we would have a viable multi-party system, at least in the House.

For the Senate, I would want a two-round system in which candidates from all parties may compete in and the two top winners must then run in a statewide election.
 
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