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Property ownership means nothing now a days. I know many people who rent because their jobs take them all over. Why do a mortgage ever few years or have to sell a house every time you move?The problem with your argument is that it 1) assumes property ownership is an adequate measure of responsibility, 2) assumes that people come to own property primarily, or solely, because of hard work, and 3) assumes that the values you attribute to property owners are what the qualifications for voting should be measured by.
So few words, so many fundamental errors...
• Voting is a right. Not a privilege.• Owning property is not a valid proxy for "good citizenship."
• Owning property is certainly not an indicator of intelligence or wisdom.
• Do you intend to disenfranchise people who inherited land?
• Property owners certainly aren't going to vote your way. If they did, Obama would not be President right now.
More critically, it is not acceptable, and profoundly un-American, to say that "only people who I expect to act like X get to vote." The reality is that when citizens are free, they are going to make decisions that you personally do not agree with. That is the essence of liberty in a society -- not just "I get to do what I want," but also allowing others to make their own choices about how to be governed and how to live.
...no, we require people to obey laws for a variety of reasons, including securing the safety of citizens. States often revoke the *cough* right to vote as an additional punishment.
Yeah. I know that property ownership was a huge deal in the past, but it's definitely become less so recently, especially given how many people live in cities or live in places temporarily.Property ownership means nothing now a days. I know many people who rent because their jobs take them all over. Why do a mortgage ever few years or have to sell a house every time you move?
Plus, renting can be even more of a responsibility. Its someone elses home and you have to take care of it.
I question the moral right of properly ownership.....after all, the property was all but stolen from the original inhabitents..
I do not think people should own land....
As far as "wanting America to succeed" , I do not think that property owners have an exclusive on this...
I think that everyone wishes to succeed....however this is defined....
Sawyer, I think you are assuming too much.....
I'd say that most people (left and right) vote for what is in THEIR best interests...
Has such a question ever been polled ?
And, should not the peoples best interest and America's best interest be one and the same ???
There are conservatives who consider me to be "retarded"......I am emotional...........take away my voting rights and you die ! ...or both of us die....obviously, this is dangerous...So in your opinion convicted felons, the insane and retarded people should vote?
There are two possible answers to that.Voting is not a right, but a privilege granted or withheld at the discretion of local and state governments.
When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
So you don't own property, as I thought.
There are two possible answers to that.
1) "Voting is a privilege" in the US, because rights are not intrinsic; they are social constructions, granted by governments.
2) We do have intrinsic rights, and voting -- or more specifically, citizens having a say in how they are governed -- is one of them. The US just doesn't recognize it as a right.
Take your pick.
Oh, and you skipped several other critical objections. No surprise there.
So few words, so many fundamental errors...
• Voting is a right. Not a privilege.
• Owning property is not a valid proxy for "good citizenship."
• Owning property is certainly not an indicator of intelligence or wisdom.
• Do you intend to disenfranchise people who inherited land?
• Property owners certainly aren't going to vote your way. If they did, Obama would not be President right now.
More critically, it is not acceptable, and profoundly un-American, to say that "only people who I expect to act like X get to vote." The reality is that when citizens are free, they are going to make decisions that you personally do not agree with. That is the essence of liberty in a society -- not just "I get to do what I want," but also allowing others to make their own choices about how to be governed and how to live.
...no, we require people to obey laws for a variety of reasons, including securing the safety of citizens. States often revoke the *cough* right to vote as an additional punishment.
Yup. How about you can't vote unless you have a business operating out of an PO Box in the Cayman Islands? That would keep the uneducated and ill informed from voting for people or programs that would help them.Owning or not owning property does NOT determine the quality of the man...
It really has little to nothing to do with the "political process", which is people based.
Or, how far back do you wish to go, Sawyer ?
Kings and queens
tribal chiefs and constant warfare
king of the hill - the strongest takes all ... much like wild animals..
Owning or not owning property does NOT determine the quality of the man...
It really has little to nothing to do with the "political process", which is people based.
Or, how far back do you wish to go, Sawyer ?
Kings and queens
tribal chiefs and constant warfare
king of the hill - the strongest takes all ... much like wild animals..
1776 no farther.
So you want to give back all the land America has except for the original 13 Colonies? Didn't think that one through did you.
If you are on welfare will you vote for welfare reform?
This whole idea is utterly ****ing braindead. You know what group in America doesn't own land very often? Soldiers who live on military bases.
You betcha.....
I would, BUT reform and improvement NOT elimination .....
And, yes, I am sure that there are children(adults of all ages) who would just vote for more.....based on greed , not merit....we should take the "good" with the "bad" .
So when you get discharged you no longer can vote unless you are one of the high class soldiers that get paid enough to own real property?Good point, a soldier exemption would be called for.
At the risk of being labeled a grammar-nazi, remember... paragraphs are your friend. Just sayin'.When George Washington was elected only 6% of the population could vote because you had to be a white male property owner over the age of 21. It wasn't until 1856 that the vote was expanded to include all white men. In 1868 black men got the vote and finally in 1920 women got the right to vote . It wasn't until 1972 that the voting age was lowered to 18 and the steady dumbing down of the voter pool was complete. Before people start screaming racist and misogynist that is not my point here. I'm fine with all races and women voting but we never should have dropped the property owner requirement and never should have lowered the voting age to 18. When you have reached a point in your life where you own property you have demonstrated the ability to participate in this society in a contributing way but the main thing is you have skin in the game. At this point you want America to be a stable functioning country that is prosperous and has an effective economy where your hard work will be rewarded and safe guarded. Kids and non property owners are going to vote on and for different issues than they will or would when they are a participating member of our economy and should not be allowed to vote until they do more than hang around the fringes. The extreme example of this is people on welfare voting and kids in school who have never had a job in their lives. These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain by voting against a thriving economy and for give away programs to benefit them and will vote in their own self interest instead of considering what is best for the country at large. IMO we should reinstate the original voting requirement of being a property owner.
Once you start issuing exemptions, you defeat your entire premise.Good point, a soldier exemption would be called for.
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