walleye
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 724
- Reaction score
- 159
- Location
- Spokane, Washington
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Dude, dense? This is like you are a rebelling teenager calling his father stupid for understanding things that the teenager is incapable of understanding due to cognitive development obstacles. I can sense that you are starting to squirm as you attempt to justify your misunderstanding regarding your religion. It is OK. It will all work out. You are still a "Christian" to us.
christian religion
noun
a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior
Christian Religion definition | Dictionary.com
A Christian is one who embodies a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior
Not sure how much more simple this issue could be? *shrugs*
The violence condoned by God is judgment either on Israel for disobeying or for the enemies of Israel. God had a plan. He needed a nation to bring forth the Savior of the world and the nation needed a land. The plan of God will go forth no matter who stands in the way. Mercy overrides judgment. Choose mercy or else judgment awaits.
Not sure if you just edited this in, but it did not show up when I hit the quote button on the previous post.
So, this looks like God DID condone violence in order that his plan be fullfilled. No matter who stands in the way, god will win even if he needs to condone/use violence. Not sure how this doesn't completely negate everything that you have been saying and how it doesn't completely make my argument for me, but I am sure you will spin it somehow in order to say that god doesn't condone violence or that violence is not in the bible even though you just said it. :2razz:
Your link is not correct. Christians do not live under the Old Testament. Christians live under the New Testament. There are many things on the internet. Just because you find something on the internet does not mean it is the truth. Kinda like TV. Lots of voices. Jesus said the old was finished. I'll take his word for it.
I can see where you would think that. I never denied there was violence in the Old Testament. Islam condones violence if you insult Mohammed. God never condoned violence for insulting Jesus. Islam says not make friends with Christians or Jews. Jesus said to love yoru neighbors.
So what is the plan of God in Islam that condones their violence?
It is a dictionary site... not an opinion site. Cambride Dictionary... will you allow Cambridge?
Christianity
noun
a religion based on belief in God and the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, and on the Bible
The Bible contains the Old Testament too. I think that this connects the dots beyond refute. I am sure that you still won't agree though, and that might just be the way that it is. I have debated religious zealots before and as a rule, thye never yield n inch lest it destroy the entire construct of their faith, that is by it's very nature... illogical. Oh well.
"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"
Look, I have never debated that Jesus taught violence, just that it is in the Bible as a part of Christianity...
Likewise, Islam is spread by the sword, as I have already mentioned.
So, since you don't deny that violence exists in the OT, which was going to be our argument, then we don't have one.
By the same token, what is you point anyway? That Jesus does not teach violence?
Does anybody here even dispute that?
Did you know that many modern Muslims think that most, if not all, readical militant Muslims are twisting the words of the Qu'ran to fit their narow view, to further their agenda and that those who do this are not really Muslims? I know some Muslims like that personally... and they are devote Muslims that follow the Qu'ran and all of it. To say that they are more violent, or that they follow a violent religion is as ridiculous as saying that you are violent. Just something to chew on...
When did Jesus ever say not to follow the Old Testament?
Bodhisattva, don't bother
There is at least 5 inches between his skull and his brain. Thinking logically is not something he is capable of.
He claims Christians don't have to live under the laws of the Old Testament, even though Jesus said otherwise
When did Jesus ever say not to follow the Old Testament?
Bodhisattva, don't bother
There is at least 5 inches between his skull and his brain. Thinking logically is not something he is capable of.
He claims Christians don't have to live under the laws of the Old Testament, even though Jesus said otherwise
When did Jesus ever say not to follow the Old Testament?
He never said it, but Christians do not follow it....Or maybe Christians follow the 'philosophical' viewpoint, but last time I checked, Christians didn't observe the sabbath, didn't observe most of the the 613 commandments...When did Jesus ever say not to follow the Old Testament?
Jesus said that he didn't come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. What does it mean to fulfill the law? The word "fulfill" is from the Greek word pleroo, which has a wide range of meanings:"satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfill, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply."
There are several ways in which Jesus Christ fulfilled the Old Testament. Christ fulfilled the Law by obeying it perfectly, by carrying out every one of the righteous demands of the Law. On one occasion He asked, "Which one of you convicts Me of sin?" (John 8:46), to which no one responded affirmatively. He was the sinless Lamb of God and was without spot or blemish. Therefore, He fulfilled the Law by perfectly meeting its righteous demands.
Christ also fulfilled the Law by fulfilling all the types and prophecies of the Old Testament. All of the illustrations in the Old Testament sacrificial system focus on and find their fulfillment in Him. All of the prophecies given regarding the coming Messiah, His kingdom, and His salvation find their fulfillment in Him.
The ultimate way that Christ fulfilled the Old Testament Scriptures, the one which gets the greatest emphasis in the New Testament, is that He met the righteous demands of the Law in providing salvation through His death on the cross. Thus He has fulfilled the Law and brought it to completion by paying the penalty for our sins.
Again, if we look at Matthew's use of this word "fulfill" it will help us understand exactly what he means:
Matthew 1:21-23 (NKJV) "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled [pleroo] which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
Matthew 2:15 (NKJV) and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled [pleroo] which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, "Out of Egypt I called My Son."
Matthew 2:17 (NKJV) Then was fulfilled [pleroo] what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying:
Matthew 2:23 (NKJV) And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled [pleroo] which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene."
Matthew 26:56 (NKJV) "But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled [pleroo]." Then all the disciples forsook Him and fled.
Seventeen times Matthew uses the word pleroo and in fifteen of them it clearly refers to prophecy being fulfilled or coming to pass. The law, which we read in the Old Testament and everything that has been said by the prophets, was going to be fulfilled by Jesus down to the minutest detail. And until it was all fulfilled, it was binding on the people of God.
The law has been fulfilled:
Hebrews 7:18 (NKJV) For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
This is truly an amazing statement. God is promising to set aside the Mosaic Law and the Levitical system. The word "annulling" is from the Greek verb athetesis. It is a legal term that points to the complete cancellation of the commandment in question - the Mosaic law. The same verb is used in 9:26 translated: "putting away".
Hebrews 9:26 (NKJV) He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away [athetesis] sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
The disappearance of the Mosaic law is as absolute as the putting away of sin.
The purpose of the Law is stated in Galatians 3 where it is indicated that the Law is to reveal our sinfulness and to serve as a tutor or schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Paul says in Galatians 3 that now that Christ has come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster. Now that Christ has come and the Law has been brought to its completion, the Law has been fulfilled in Christ:
Galatians 3:24-26 (NKJV) Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Has the Law, the Old Covenant, been fulfilled in Christ? I don't know of any Christians who would say that every single Old Testament ceremonial law is still currently in force. Yet Jesus said that heaven and earth absolutely had to pass away before the slightest letter of the Law could be fulfilled. Thus, if the Law has been fulfilled, the heaven and earth Jesus spoke of must be already taken out of the way.
We can tell that Jesus obviously was NOT speaking of the literal earth He was standing on and the literal heavens He was standing under. If we understand heaven and earth in that passage to be physical, then the Law is still in effect, and we are all in big trouble. If we understand heaven and earth as figurative, then it is possible that they have passed along with the Law.
Believer, I want you to understand that the law was a whole, and it was all in effect until it all passed away. Does this mean that we are free to do whatever we want? No, as believers we are not under the Old Covenant Law, but we are under the Law of Christ:
More at this link:
The Law is Fulfilled, Matthew 5:17-18
What does Christianity have to do with a conflict between Jewish and Muslim people?
This thread has outlived it's usefulness IMO.
You're completely right I_T, I was about to say that religions dont have to do anything with this conflict.
But I'd been watching Mr.walleye's posts from the first post, he just got in DP to criticize Islam and show that its a religion of Murder .... and you know the rest.
With all my respect for debaters, lets get back to our debate (Gaza-Israel) conflict and leave the religion alone.
And for Mr.walleye , If you are here to criticize the religion, sorry, you are in the wrong place.
:2wave:
You're completely right I_T, I was about to say that religions dont have to do anything with this conflict.
But I'd been watching Mr.walleye's posts from the first post, he just got in DP to criticize Islam and show that its a religion of Murder .... and you know the rest.
With all my respect for debaters, lets get back to our debate (Gaza-Israel) conflict and leave the religion alone.
And for Mr.walleye , If you are here to criticize the religion, sorry, you are in the wrong place.
:2wave:
I disagree. I believe this is exactly the right place to criticize Islam. The violence from Hamas and other terrorist organizations is being carried out in the name of Allah. Let's get to the heart of the matter. You and others claim your religion is "the religion of peace". Your actions don't line up with your rhetoric. Convince me.
if Islam is the religion of Peace, why do they not act to eliminate the extremists
seems over 1 billion people have some muscle to flex over the situation
just saying
kill em? - lolwut!?
stop funding them? - What do you mean by funding them?
close radical schools? - What radical schools?
rat them out if they are terrorists? - M'kay. Sounds good.
take military units our of the control of Religious figures - Who should do this and how?
just off the top of my head
glad you appreciated the blatant contradiction in my first suggestion :lol:See above.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?