Ohio Bill Seeks to Ban and Criminalize Abortion

[Lisa]

Elective abortion is a form of child abuse — not just of the child being killed, but of the patient suffering the loss. Many women are pressured, misinformed, or afraid. The responsibility should fall on those who profit from the act — the providers and clinics.

I think both sides of this debate are trying to protect someone. The Right wants to protect the child. The Left wants to protect the mother. And in truth, both deserve protection.

We already take this approach in other forms of child harm. In domestic-abuse cases, we protect the child and offer the mother support. When a pregnant woman struggles with substance abuse, the system focuses on treatment, not punishment.

Elective abortion should be handled the same way: protect the child, support the mother, and hold accountable those who exploit the situation.

Abortion is medical care that we in Ohio voted overwhelming to add to the Ohio Constitution. If you dont like it, then as a guy you will never have to make that decision. Keep your nose and your bible out of the lives and medical decisions of others.

 

[Endurecraft]

Abortion is medical care that we in Ohio voted overwhelming to add to the Ohio Constitution. If you dont like it, then as a guy you will never have to make that decision. Keep your nose and your bible out of the lives and medical decisions of others.

Lisa, I hear your frustration.
But it strikes me as worth asking: if your side has already won the legal battle in Ohio — and if that vote was so overwhelmingly clear — then why the hostility?

I haven’t brought up religion. I haven’t told anyone what to do. I made an argument based on how we handle other forms of child harm — by protecting the child and supporting the mother — and simply suggested we treat abortion with that same logic. If that’s “avoiding facts,” I’d be interested to hear which ones you feel were missing.

I’m new here, so I’m still learning the tone and temperature of this place. But I believe it’s possible to talk about hard things with conviction and respect.

 

[Lisa]

Lisa, I hear your frustration.
But it strikes me as worth asking: if your side has already won the legal battle in Ohio — and if that vote was so overwhelmingly clear — then why the hostility?

I haven’t brought up religion. I haven’t told anyone what to do. I made an argument based on how we handle other forms of child harm — by protecting the child and supporting the mother — and simply suggested we treat abortion with that same logic. If that’s “avoiding facts,” I’d be interested to hear which ones you feel were missing.

I’m new here, so I’m still learning the tone and temperature of this place. But I believe it’s possible to talk about hard things with conviction and respect.

Dont pander to me!

A fetus is not a child, so stop with the religious strawmen.

I will not respect a religious conservative who seek to push their bible in others lives!!!!!

 

[Lursa]

Dont pander to me!

A fetus is not a child, so stop with the religious strawmen.

I will not respect a religious conservative who seek to push their bible in others lives!!!!!

And there's zero abuse. That word has real meaning and it minimizes the suffering of all the children and spouses that are abused.

The pregnant woman suffers pain and sickness and the denial of her consent to her own life and moral agency as a person, a minimization of her status and role in society. None of that applies to the unborn.

IMO, to use the term "abuse" is an attempt at emotional manipulation.

 

[Gordy327]

Lisa, I hear your frustration.
But it strikes me as worth asking: if your side has already won the legal battle in Ohio — and if that vote was so overwhelmingly clear — then why the hostility?

I haven’t brought up religion. I haven’t told anyone what to do. I made an argument based on how we handle other forms of child harm — by protecting the child and supporting the mother — and simply suggested we treat abortion with that same logic. If that’s “avoiding facts,” I’d be interested to hear which ones you feel were missing.

I’m new here, so I’m still learning the tone and temperature of this place. But I believe it’s possible to talk about hard things with conviction and respect.

There is no child in an abortion. Neither does the unborn have any rights or protections. Abortion is a medical procedure and a matter between a woman and her doctor and as such is no one else's business or concern.Those are facts and they are why your argument fails.

 

[Endurecraft]

Dont pander to me!

A fetus is not a child, so stop with the religious strawmen.

I will not respect a religious conservative who seek to push their bible in others lives!!!!!

Lisa, I hear you.

I want to be clear: I haven’t brought up religion, and I’m not here to tell anyone how to live. I’m making a case for treating abortion the same way we treat other situations involving child harm — with protection for the child and support for the mother.

For someone who sees elective abortion as abuse, that’s not about faith — it’s about consistency.

 

[Gordy327]

Lisa, I hear you.

I want to be clear: I haven’t brought up religion, and I’m not here to tell anyone how to live. I’m making a case for treating abortion the same way we treat other situations involving child harm — with protection for the child and support for the mother.

Ok, make your case. Why should abortion be treated as child abuse, especially since there is no child yet? What about the woman's rights and bodily autonomy? How do you reconcile that?

For someone who sees elective abortion as abuse, that’s not about faith — it’s about consistency.

It's nothing more than one's feelings.

 

[Lisa]

Lisa, I hear you.

I want to be clear: I haven’t brought up religion, and I’m not here to tell anyone how to live. I’m making a case for treating abortion the same way we treat other situations involving child harm — with protection for the child and support for the mother.

For someone who sees elective abortion as abuse, that’s not about faith — it’s about consistency.

The only objection to abortion is based in religious belief. Keep your imaginary gods and your beliefs out of the lives of others.

Children are not being harmed by abortion because a fetus is not a child.

 

[Gordy327]

The only objection to Abortion is based in religious belief.

Or one's own feelings.

Keep your imaginary gods and your beliefs out of the lives of others.

That cannot be repeated enough.

Children are not being harmed by abortion because a fetus is not a child.

Exactly! But then, many have tunnel vision when it comes to a fetus. Or is it "fetalvision?"

 

[Lisa]

Or one's own feelings.

That cannot be repeated enough.

Exactly! But then, many have tunnel vision when it comes to a fetus. Or is it "fetalvision?"

I hate pro-birth, anti-women religious assholes.

 

[Gordy327]

I hate pro-birth, anti-women religious assholes.

You forgot to add sanctimonious busybodies.

 

[Endurecraft]

There is no child in an abortion. Neither does the unborn have any rights or protections. Abortion is a medical procedure and a matter between a woman and her doctor and as such is no one else's business or concern.Those are facts and they are why your argument fails.

Gordy, I don’t expect us to agree on the moral status of the unborn.
You’ve stated your position clearly, and I respect that.

My concern is where the pressure comes from — and who profits from it.

Elective abortion has become a high-dollar industry. Clinics, pharmaceutical companies, and activist networks don’t just offer services — they shape narratives, suppress alternatives, and steer vulnerable women toward one outcome. That’s not medical care; that’s monetized crisis.

We wouldn’t tolerate this model in any other industry that profits from desperation. We shouldn’t here either.

So while you see this as a legal procedure, I see it as institutional abuse — not aimed at the mother, but at her.

 

[Gordy327]

Gordy, I don’t expect us to agree on the moral status of the unborn.
You’ve stated your position clearly, and I respect that.

You do not have to agree. But I'm not arguing morality. The status of the unborn, or lack of status as it were, is just a simple fact.

My concern is where the pressure comes from — and who profits from it.

What difference does it make? Women can either choose to have an abortion or not. Same as any other medical procedure. Abortion is also safer, cheaper, easier, and more practical than gestation, birth, and rearing.

Elective abortion has become a high-dollar industry. Clinics, pharmaceutical companies, and activist networks don’t just offer services — they shape narratives, suppress alternatives, and steer vulnerable women toward one outcome. That’s not medical care; that’s monetized crisis.

You do not seem to give women much credit, do you? A woman may choose an abortion for whatever reason she wishes. But ultimately, it's still her decision, a procedure she must consent to, and no one's business or concern, just like any other medical procedure.

We wouldn’t tolerate this model in any other industry that profits from desperation. We shouldn’t here either.

See previous statement. While a woman may be desperate depending on her situation, what if she is not "desperate" and simply does not want to gestate?

So while you see this as a legal procedure, I see it as institutional abuse — not aimed at the mother, but at her.

It's a medical procedure overly entwined with legality. As for it being an "institutional abuse," which makes no sense, it's still just an opinion.

 

[Endurecraft]

Ok, make your case. Why should abortion be treated as child abuse, especially since there is no child yet? What about the woman's rights and bodily autonomy? How do you reconcile that?

It's nothing more than one's feelings.

I think we’re using different frameworks. You see abortion as private healthcare. I see a multi-billion dollar system that profits from fear and misinformation. That difference shapes everything else. If you’re ever interested in unpacking that side of it, I’m here for it.

 

[Gordy327]

I think we’re using different frameworks. You see abortion as private healthcare.

I see abortion as a woman's personal choice to utilize a medical service to her benefit, the same as any other medical procedure. What I do not see is how it's any of your or anyone elses business or concern what another chooses and consents to.

I see a multi-billion dollar system that profits from fear and misinformation. That difference shapes everything else. If you’re ever interested in unpacking that side of it, I’m here for it.

Not interested. It sounds more like conspiracy nonsense. Do you hold the same view about other medical procedures, such as plastic surgery? A consenting individual can choose to have whatever medical procedure they want. Or about people buying ovepriced cars at a dealership? That is their choice. So your complaint about profits or whatever is irrelevant.

 

[Lursa]

My concern is where the pressure comes from — and who profits from it.

Elective abortion has become a high-dollar industry. Clinics, pharmaceutical companies, and activist networks don’t just offer services — they shape narratives, suppress alternatives, and steer vulnerable women toward one outcome. That’s not medical care; that’s monetized crisis.

I call BS on your "crafting narratives" claim. Have you ever been in a PP clinic? Have you ever used their services? I have, I used to clean their offices. I have taken sisters and a friend for services. Abortion is not promoted in signage, advertising, or counseling. Can you cite the text I bolded?

OTOH, there are Catholic-based clinics where they do not even mention the option of abortion. Do you object to them on the same basis that they focus only on their agenda?

For an intentionally obvious "narrative" look at the anti-abortionists...public protests and prayer circles in front of clinics. Even violence.

Also, in another thread currently running, it shows that $$ profits from abortion arent even close to the primary income for PP clinics.

 

[Gordy327]

I call BS on your "crafting narratives" claim.

Considering that individual's updated "status," it's all moot now. That didn't take long.

 

[Lursa]

We wouldn’t tolerate this model in any other industry that profits from desperation. We shouldn’t here either.

If access to abortion was just between a woman and her doctor and the choice hers...why would it be from desperation? She knows her financial risks and circumstances, her readiness to parent, her current position to raise a kid, and the dr explains the risks of pregnancy/childbirth AND abortion.

Where is the desperation? It's created by the states where people make access to that reproductive access is restricted and also condemned.

If you remove the condemnation and concerns over not getting the care she needs...why would there be desperation?

So while you see this as a legal procedure, I see it as institutional abuse — not aimed at the mother, but at her.

You seem to imply that women are not intelligent enough or strong enough to make these decisions for themselves "and" to accept the consequences of those actions. Yes, we all have to make tough decisions in life. That doesnt mean they're the wrong ones or that there arent consequences down the line. We make them with the expectation that they are in our best interests.

 

[Lursa]

Considering that individual's updated "status," it's all moot now. That didn't take long.

I'm pretty sure it was a anti-abortite that's had his previous "arguments" on the subject tanked and was hoping to come in with another "fresh" angle to try. One common thread for so many of them...lack of respect for women. Oh well

 

[Gordy327]

I'm pretty sure it was a anti-abortite that's had his previous "arguments" on the subject tanked and was hoping to come in with another "fresh" angle to try. One common thread for so many of them...lack of respect for women. Oh well

I tend to agree. Although this time was more cordial than usual.

 

[Lursa]

I tend to agree. Although this time was more cordial than usual.

Only because he didnt stick around long enough, IMO, to really be challenged. He didnt want to reveal himself.

 

[Gordy327]

Only because he didnt stick around long enough, IMO, to really be challenged. He didnt want to reveal himself.

He was found out pretty quick. Remember when "new" members were genuinely new?

 

[Lycanthrope]

 

[Pyrite]

So let me get this straight. You are worried about treating a baby in the womb as a person with rights and protections, but you are fine with encouraging illegal immigrants, some who are criminals, to come to this country in violation of our laws and then work to protect them with our laws that they are in violation of!

Focus. This thread is about Buckeye GOPers' attempt to circumvent - to negate - the Ohio constitution.

 

[Lursa]

So let me get this straight. You think abortion is homicide, and you think it's a states-rights issue.

@Integrityrespec?