Obama stabs McCain in the back - a true Dem

Gill · Feb 7, 2006

The last paragraph of the Washington Post article that is linked above, sums the situation up nicely:

Democrats have made no secret of their belief that congressional Republicans' alleged "culture of corruption" is one of the key elements of their strategy to make major gains at the ballot box in November. Signing onto legislation with McCain -- a beloved figure among independents and even many Democrats -- would jeopardize the party's ability to draw bright distinctions in the midterm election campaign.

Deegan · Feb 7, 2006

This is who McCain is, why is anyone surprised by this?

He has always spoken his mind, and it did not matter if it was with Democrats, or Republicans, but now he has attacked the "Golden boy" the token black super Senator of the future. This will probably be turned in to a race issue now, just hide and watch. I thank McCain for bringing this to all of our attention, it needed to be said, politicians are playing politics with important issues, and this hurts the people, and we are supposed to be their bosses, they are supposed to serve us!

hipsterdufus · Feb 7, 2006

Stinger said:
MCCAIN RELEASES LETTER TO OBAMA For Immediate Release Monday, Feb 06, 2006 Washington D.C. *– Today, Senator McCain sent the following letter to Senator Obama regarding ongoing Congressional efforts towards bipartisan lobbying reform. The following is the text from that letter:

February 6, 2006

The Honorable Barack Obama

United States Senate

SH-713

Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator Obama:

I would like to apologize to you for assuming that your private assurances to me regarding your desire to cooperate in our efforts to negotiate bipartisan lobbying reform legislation were sincere. When you approached me and insisted that despite your leadership’s preference to use the issue to gain a political advantage in the 2006 elections, you were personally committed to achieving a result that would reflect credit on the entire Senate and offer the country a better example of political leadership, I concluded your professed concern for the institution and the public interest was genuine and admirable. Thank you for disabusing me of such notions with your letter to me dated February 2, 2006, which explained your decision to withdraw from our bipartisan discussions. I’m embarrassed to admit that after all these years in politics I failed to interpret your previous assurances as typical rhetorical gloss routinely used in politics to make self-interested partisan posturing appear more noble. Again, sorry for the confusion, but please be assured I won’t make the same mistake again.

As you know, the Majority Leader has asked Chairman Collins to hold hearings and mark up a bill for floor consideration in early March. I fully support such timely action and I am confident that, together with Senator Lieberman, the Committee on Governmental Affairs will report out a meaningful, bipartisan bill.

You commented in your letter about my “interest in creating a task force to further study” this issue, as if to suggest I support delaying the consideration of much-needed reforms rather than allowing the committees of jurisdiction to hold hearings on the matter. Nothing could be further from the truth. The timely findings of a bipartisan working group could be very helpful to the committee in formulating legislation that will be reported to the full Senate. Since you are new to the Senate, you may not be aware of the fact that I have always supported fully the regular committee and legislative process in the Senate, and routinely urge Committee Chairmen to hold hearings on important issues. In fact, I urged Senator Collins to schedule a hearing upon the Senate’s return in January.

Furthermore, I have consistently maintained that any lobbying reform proposal be bipartisan. The bill Senators Joe Lieberman and Bill Nelson and I have introduced is evidence of that commitment as is my insistence that members of both parties be included in meetings to develop the legislation that will ultimately be considered on the Senate floor. As I explained in a recent letter to Senator Reid, and have publicly said many times, the American people do not see this as just a Republican problem or just a Democratic problem. They see it as yet another run-of-the-mill Washington scandal, and they expect it will generate just another round of partisan gamesmanship and posturing. Senator Lieberman and I, and many other members of this body, hope to exceed the public’s low expectations. We view this as an opportunity to bring transparency and accountability to the Congress, and, most importantly, to show the public that both parties will work together to address our failings.

As I noted, I initially believed you shared that goal. But I understand how important the opportunity to lead your party’s effort to exploit this issue must seem to a freshman Senator, and I hold no hard feelings over your earlier disingenuousness. Again, I have been around long enough to appreciate that in politics the public interest isn’t always a priority for every one of us. Good luck to you, Senator.

Sincerely,

John McCain
United States Senate

So is Obama showing his true Democrat colors?

This letter sounds like a weird joke. But nothing was funnier than Santorum standing next to McCain when the Rep announced their plans to reform government.

As an aside did anyone else notice McCain's cameo on 24 last night?

Here's Obama's response:

"I confess that I have no idea" what prompted the letter, Obama wrote Monday. "But let me assure you that I am not interested in typical partisan rhetoric or posturing. The fact that you have now questioned my sincerity and my desire to put aside politics for the public interest is regrettable but does not in any way diminish my deep respect for you nor my willingness to find a bipartisan solution to this problem."

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-obama07.html

easyt65 · Feb 7, 2006

not that it means much, but in regards to it being a joke - it's on the Drudge page...so it might be true.

disneydude · Feb 7, 2006

Obama's reply shows a great deal of class (something that I always believed John McCain had and hope that he still does. I need to find out more because as I said I actually admired John McCain until I read that letter. The letter makes him sound a little mentally unstable).

Gill · Feb 7, 2006

Obama's reply shows a great deal of class

I also thought Obama had some class but this proves he's just another Washington politician.

cnredd · Feb 7, 2006

aps said:
Wow. This makes me see John McCain in a different light. When the republicans did their little whisper campaign against McCain, saying that he was an angry person as a result of his captivity, I was disgusted. But maybe there is a little truth to this. I see an angry, vindictive person. He publicized this letter? For what purpose? To show what a tough guy he is? I think he showed what an a$$ he is. "Hey, look at me. I am reprimanding Obama because he is a backstabbing democrat."

Nice. Real nice, Senator McCain.

cnredd said:
Allow me to translate for the forum...

"I liked McCain because he was hated by the right wing Republicans, but because he is still more to the right than the person I like better, I will now switch my position."

I shoulda seen this post comin'...:shrug:

aps said:
I was addressing past posts he has done where he has attempted to provide evidence that I was contradicting myself. Ho hum. He must give me a lot of crediblity enough to want to discredit it. So I take his responding to my posts as a compliment.

I didn't attempt to disprove what he accused my post of saying in this instance because his conclusion was so ridiculous. I honestly don't know where it came from, but oh well. I meant what I said in my post--that seeing McCain's sarcasm in his letter made me see him differently. It turned me off. It's that simple. There's far more professional ways to express disagreement without looking so obnoxious.

*sigh*...

Let the facts fall where they may...Here is a past history of your McCain comments...

aps said:
It's not like Earle was going after a republican like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and other well-respected republicans.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=212941&postcount=122

You call him respected based on how the other Republicans having a "whisper campaign" against him?...

aps said:
I am surprised by that percentage that support impeaching Bush. The more I read about this, the more I am assured that he has broken the law. McCain believes he did not have the authority. Other republicans believe it too. Check it out.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=209298&postcount=18

Where's your claim that he just said this to be "angry" & "vindictive" like you do so now?...

aps said:
Murtha is speaking from his heart and from experience, yet they are looking to attack his service (surprise surprise--see McCain and Kerry smearing examples).

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=202009&postcount=6

Do you retract this due to the "smearing examples" that you consider correct now?

aps said:
John McCain--I like him, but I hate him for kissing Bush's a$$ after the horrible way Bush (well, Karl Rove) attacked McCain so that he would not win in South Carolina. McCain has no balls. Stand up for yourself for god's sake!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=173546&postcount=2

Now we know why he doesn't stand up more often...When he does, you attack him!...

Funny how in one post you call him "well-respected", then in another post, you say he "has no balls"...Whatever helps your cause, eh?...

aps said:
Republicans are so patriotic that they will make up lies about John McCain being an angry person after his prisoner-of-war captivity...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=174267&postcount=4

Is this the part where you say, "The Republicans were right all along?"...

aps said:
Okay, I am too lazy to search through this thread to see if a letter written to John McCain has been posted in here. It was in yesterday's Washington Post. Here it is for those who are interested.

A Matter of Honor
Wednesday, September 28, 2005; A21
The following letter was sent to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on Sept. 16:

Dear Senator McCain:...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=98702&postcount=456

Fascinating!...You endorse a letter TO Senator McCain...But FROM him?...That's a "no-no" in your book...

If the Captain wanted to go to the leadership as stated in the letter, why go to such an "angry" & "vindictive" person like McCain?...Where's his letter to Obama?!?!?!...

aps said:
I think that Rove is in deep doo doo. It could not happen to a better guy. This jerk has made it his life to trash anyone who is running against his candidate. Let's see, Ann Richardson, John McCain, John Kerry, and the list goes on and on and on.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=107027&postcount=18

Are you now saying, "I don't like Rove, but I see now that Rove was correct in "trashing" McCain?"...

Here's the kicker...Love this one...

aps said:
I like McCain, but I was terribly disappointed that he helped Bush campaign for the 2004 election, after Bush had made a fool of him during the primaries for the 2000 election. Sorry, but no matter how much I wanted my party to win, I wouldn't support someone who had trashed me AND my spouse. I was also disappointed with him when he did not defend Kerry when Kerry's service was being attacked.

People who say that he has anger problems can shove it up their butts. Does anyone, for the most part, have any idea what it is like to be a prisoner of war? I believe he was in captivity for 5 years. Sheesh. As a senator, I have not seen his anger have a negative impact on him. If his anger was a problem, he couldn't keep his position for this long.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=105955&postcount=182

"I'm aps, and I was wrong all this time"...

C'mon...SAY IT!!!!!!!!...Tell the forum how easily you flip based on one letter...How he is SOOOO respectful when against Republicans, but how he's SOOOO vindictive when against Democrats...

When you wake up, do you just wet your finger and see which way the wind is blowin'?...:roll:

Now continue to read the excerpts from the Left on this thread...

disneydude said:
John McCain is a Republican that I actually admire and respect, but this makes me question his character.

hipsterdufus said:
This letter sounds like a weird joke. But nothing was funnier than Santorum standing next to McCain when the Rep announced their plans to reform government.

The Left thought they had an ally when it comes to Conservative bashing, so he was always "respected" and "admired"...

The second they find out he's an equal opportunity basher of partisan tactics...My, how quickly they turn...

"Party 1st...America 2nd"...No truer words have been spoken...

P.S. - Not ONE debate on McCain's letter from the Left on this forum...Only the messenger was attacked...:roll:

FinnMacCool · Feb 7, 2006

My respect for McCain just went down two points. If he was such a tough guy, he wouldn't have released the letter just to make himself look good. What was he thinking?

Stinger · Feb 7, 2006

FinnMacCool said:
My respect for McCain just went down two points. If he was such a tough guy, he wouldn't have released the letter just to make himself look good. What was he thinking?

He was thinking how this is a classic example of how Democrats talk about working together but invaribly they stab you in the back. Why shouldn't he make note of it?

easyt65 · Feb 7, 2006

Stinger said:
He was thinking how this is a classic example of how Democrats talk about working together but invaribly they stab you in the back. Why shouldn't he make note of it?

Because, as Nancy Pelosi demanded after being cited for HER lobbyist paid trips, you have to treat Democrats and Republicans different. 'THEY' are criminals....I guess she was implying that 'where the Dems are not'?!

It is OK for Dems to do such things as Obama did, but it is wrong for Mccain to point it out because it paints the Dems in a bad light.

FinnMacCool · Feb 7, 2006

He was thinking how this is a classic example of how Democrats talk about working together but invaribly they stab you in the back. Why shouldn't he make note of it?

Because it's hypocritical. But whatever. Both McCain and Obama are great speakers but seriously I don't trust any of them.

Trajan Octavian Titus · Feb 7, 2006

FinnMacCool said:
Because it's hypocritical. But whatever. Both McCain and Obama are great speakers but seriously I don't trust any of them.

How the hell is it hypocritical? Obamma says he wants to work together to help fix corruption in Congress and McCain sets up a bipartisan convention, but being the partisan hack that he is Obamma opts not to join it.

The only people being hypocritical are the libs here who supported McCain when he was talking sh!t about Republicans but are now all like: "how dare he say that about poor Obamma."

aps · Feb 7, 2006

cnredd said:
*sigh*...

Let the facts fall where they may...Here is a past history of your McCain comments...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=212941&postcount=122

You call him respected based on how the other Republicans having a "whisper campaign" against him?...

I called him well respected because I see him as a person to whom people give a lot of credibility, and to whom I give a lot of credibility.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=209298&postcount=18

Where's your claim that he just said this to be "angry" & "vindictive" like you do so now?...

At that time, I didn’t find his statements to be angry and vindictive. So because I find one letter published today exuding anger and vindictiveness, I must attach those adjectives to past statements/letters from McCain? What planet do you live on, cnredd?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=202009&postcount=6

Do you retract this due to the "smearing examples" that you consider correct now?

No. Why would I? I stand by my disgust that Rove did a smear campaign against McCain when he and Bush were running for the Republican nomination in South Carolina. So because I am disappointed with the letter that was published today, somehow that should cause me to change my mind about everything I have ever felt involving McCain? Is this how you work, cnredd?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=173546&postcount=2

Now we know why he doesn't stand up more often...When he does, you attack him!...

Funny how in one post you call him "well-respected", then in another post, you say he "has no balls"...Whatever helps your cause, eh?...

cnredd, I have no idea why you perceive this as being indicative of me contradicting myself. We all have opinions on people's behaviors and sometimes it's positive and other times it's negative. I was disgusted when I found out that Clinton had an affair with Monica Lewinsky. Did it affect how I felt about his presidency? Nope. So while I don't respect what he did with Monica, I respect him on the whole. The same holds true for McCain. I am disappointed in his not standing up for himself, but it doesn't take away the fact that I have respected him on the whole. This is life, cnredd.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=174267&postcount=4

Is this the part where you say, "The Republicans were right all along?"...

Maybe they were. Honestly, this is the first time I have ever seen this side of McCain, and frankly, I am disappointed and rather disgusted. Whether this affects my opinion of him from here on remains to be seen.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=98702&postcount=456

Fascinating!...You endorse a letter TO Senator McCain...But FROM him?...That's a "no-no" in your book...

I just don’t see how one has to do with the other. When I posted that letter, it was not based upon to whom it was written but what was stated by the author of the letter. But even if I endorsed this letter to McCain because it was written to him, what does that have to do with my subsequent assessment of a letter he wrote? Am I not allowed to change my mind about someone?

If the Captain wanted to go to the leadership as stated in the letter, why go to such an "angry" & "vindictive" person like McCain?...Where's his letter to Obama?!?!?!...

You're grasping at staws here. See answer above.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=107027&postcount=18

Are you now saying, "I don't like Rove, but I see now that Rove was correct in "trashing" McCain?"...

Not at all. cnredd, you need to take a chill pill. Your logic is not logical at all. Just because I am disappointed with McCain based upona letter he wrote to Obama, somehow it means that I will completely turn against him and praise people who attack him? How strange. Is that how you work?

Here's the kicker...Love this one...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=105955&postcount=182

"I'm aps, and I was wrong all this time"...

C'mon...SAY IT!!!!!!!!...Tell the forum how easily you flip based on one letter...How he is SOOOO respectful when against Republicans, but how he's SOOOO vindictive when against Democrats...

Huh? As I stated above, I had never seen McCain angry before—ever. Seeing the tone in this letter did make me see him differently. This is part of life, cnredd. We learn things about people and sometimes it can impact our opinion of that person temporarily or permanently. Again, whether it affects my opinion of him from here on out remains to be seen.

When you wake up, do you just wet your finger and see which way the wind is blowin'?...:roll:

OMG, you found me out. I am a complete farce.

You know what I find strange, cnredd, is that fact that you think you have caught me contradicting myself. I stand by everything I have stated previously. This morning, when I commented on McCain's letter, I said I saw him in a different light. For the most part, I see him in a positive light when it comes to veterans issues and his service to our country both in the military and in Congress. I had never seen him be so obnoxious before I read that letter today. So I was taken aback by it. Based on my reading of the letter, it exuded anger , and I thought the tone in the letter was unnecessary. No matter how partisan he perceived Obama, his letter is over the top in my opinion. If that makes you conclude that I just blow with the wind, then so be it.

I appreciate the time and effort you put into responding to my above statement that your deductive reasoning based upon my first post in this thread was "ridiculous." I stand by that assessment as well.

jfuh · Feb 7, 2006

aps said:
Wow. This makes me see John McCain in a different light. When the republicans did their little whisper campaign against McCain, saying that he was an angry person as a result of his captivity, I was disgusted. But maybe there is a little truth to this. I see an angry, vindictive person. He publicized this letter? For what purpose? To show what a tough guy he is? I think he showed what an a$$ he is. "Hey, look at me. I am reprimanding Obama because he is a backstabbing democrat."

Nice. Real nice, Senator McCain.

I don't think that's the case at all. McCain or anyone would obviously be pissed off when being back stabbed. Very uncool of Obama, but then as McCain said, understandable.
I think McCain still did the right thing. He really is a moderate that's trying to make the system work the way it should and not just for partisan bickering.
As for releasing the letter though, eh, not too good, he deffinetely could've done it more diplomatically, but then he does have a bit of a hot temper, eh that's why you just gotta like the guy.

FinnMacCool · Feb 7, 2006

How the hell is it hypocritical? Obamma says he wants to work together to help fix corruption in Congress and McCain sets up a bipartisan convention, but being the partisan hack that he is Obamma opts not to join it.

I've grown accustomed to the fact that I have to argue with you at every turn, mostly considering details with which you have obstructed. I find nothing here but I'm sure there is something.

Nevertheless, hypocrisy can go both ways.

The only people being hypocritical are the libs here who supported McCain when he was talking sh!t about Republicans but are now all like: "how dare he say that about poor Obamma."

That wouldn't be hypocritical. Indeed, it would be very fitting, however stupid and/or misrepresented any of it is.

shuamort · Feb 7, 2006

jfuh said:
I don't think that's the case at all. McCain or anyone would obviously be pissed off when being back stabbed. Very uncool of Obama, but then as McCain said, understandable.
I think McCain still did the right thing. He really is a moderate that's trying to make the system work the way it should and not just for partisan bickering.
As for releasing the letter though, eh, not too good, he deffinetely could've done it more diplomatically, but then he does have a bit of a hot temper, eh that's why you just gotta like the guy.

McCain? A moderate? No, he's quite conservative on issues. He's just been trying to work past the partisan bickering. Big difference there.

libertarian_knight · Feb 7, 2006

FinnMacCool said:
My respect for McCain just went down two points. If he was such a tough guy, he wouldn't have released the letter just to make himself look good. What was he thinking?

Real gansta ass niggas don' flex nuts, 'cdause real gansta ass niggas know they got em.

Too true.

My problem with McCain's letter, other than it being whiny and amateurish, is that is doesn't work to resolve a conflict. It's a letter that makes any disagreement worse, and makes future, genuine, cooperation harder, or impossible.

Bad McCain, putting his feelings ahead of the countries security.

BWG · Feb 7, 2006

Deegan said:
This is who McCain is, why is anyone surprised by this?

He has always spoken his mind, and it did not matter if it was with Democrats, or Republicans, but now he has attacked the "Golden boy" the token black super Senator of the future. This will probably be turned in to a race issue now, just hide and watch. I thank McCain for bringing this to all of our attention, it needed to be said, politicians are playing politics with important issues, and this hurts the people, and we are supposed to be their bosses, they are supposed to serve us!

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill recieved 70% of the Illinois votes for U.S. Senate (3,555,586)

I don't think that could be misconstrued as a TOKEN.

If a liberal had said that about a conservative, this whole board would have lit up like a winning slot machine, but a con talking about a lib, quiet as a mouse peeing on cotton...LOL

But that's alright, 'cause I know the rule.

IOKIYAR (IT'S OKAY IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN) :elephantf

BWG · Feb 7, 2006

libertarian_knight said:
Real gansta ass niggas don' flex nuts, 'cdause real gansta ass niggas know they got em.

Not the words I would use, but, yep :lol:

cnredd · Feb 7, 2006

quiet...as...a...mouse...peeing...on...cotton... :shock:

That's a new one...I gotta scribble that one down...

Stinger · Feb 7, 2006

FinnMacCool said:
Because it's hypocritical. But whatever. Both McCain and Obama are great speakers but seriously I don't trust any of them.

why? McCain has a reputation for working with Democrats, probably one of the most bipartisian members. Why is it hypocritical?

aps · Feb 7, 2006

cnredd said:
quiet...as...a...mouse...peeing...on...cotton... :shock:

That's a new one...I gotta scribble that one down...

LOL Guess you're going to ignore my response to your post where you attempted to discredit me. Notice the italicized word. :lol:

libertarian_knight · Feb 7, 2006

aps said:
LOL Guess you're going to ignore my response to your post where you attempted to discredit me. Notice the italicized word. :lol:

Minus 5 credits for abuse of italics.

There I have discredited you

cnredd · Feb 7, 2006

aps said:
LOL Guess you're going to ignore my response to your post where you attempted to discredit me. Notice the italicized word. :lol:

Totally ignore...What I've stated was correct....

McCain was your little boy wonder until he chastised a Democrat for being partisan...Then you unfurled your claws...

You weren't the only one from the Left who did it...It's a reflex when you got nothing to dispute...

Party 1st...America 2nd...

I bet you have a tape of this on playback when you're sleeping...:2wave:

aps · Feb 8, 2006

cnredd said:
Totally ignore...What I've stated was correct....

Of course you were right, cnredd. You are always right. :lamo

McCain was your little boy wonder until he chastised a Democrat for being partisan...Then you unfurled your claws...

I love it. My one comment about McCain's letter is indicative of my unfurling my claws. Okaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

You weren't the only one from the Left who did it...It's a reflex when you got nothing to dispute...

Party 1st...America 2nd...

I bet you have a tape of this on playback when you're sleeping...:2wave:

Frankly, I find your assessments to be pathetic, and I don't mean that to be mean--I mean it because it's true. You're a very angry person, cnredd. No wonder your name is what it is. Your anger blinds you to real facts. Your assessment of me is so ridiculous, I actually feel sorry for you.

Obama stabs McCain in the back - a true Dem

Gill

Deegan

hipsterdufus

easyt65

disneydude

Gill

cnredd

Major General Big Lug

FinnMacCool

Stinger

easyt65

FinnMacCool

Trajan Octavian Titus

aps

Passionate

jfuh

FinnMacCool

shuamort

Pundit-licious

libertarian_knight

BWG

BWG

cnredd

Major General Big Lug

Stinger

aps

Passionate

libertarian_knight

cnredd

Major General Big Lug

aps

Passionate

Obama stabs McCain in the back - a true Dem

hipsterdufus

Major General Big Lug

Passionate

Pundit-licious

Major General Big Lug

Passionate

Major General Big Lug

Passionate

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