Obama sends Congress $3.77T spending plan, riles both sides

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

falcata said:
Actually most of our founders left England because of religious persecution resulting from more conservative policies of the Anglican Church. I suggest that you should read a history book.

There is so much historically wrong with many of the things you guys have said.

1. Most world powers have fallen because of their own accord because of conservative tendecies. ex. Imperial China
2.I believe Erod said that "1000's" of world powers have fallen because of liberal tendencies? There have not been "1000's" of world powers.
3. The sub-prime mortgages went out of control only after Bush's deregulation.
4. you talk like deficit spending a purely liberal phenomenon, but it is practiced by conservatives in america as well.

Wrong, most of the world countries have failed because they believe it is the role of the govt. to provide cradle to grave coverage with much of their economy dependent on govt. spending. It is liberal tendencies for the govt. to take on the role of the parent and that never was the intent. This country was built on self reliance, personal responsibility, and neighbor helping neighbor, not a massive central govt. taking care of all your needs.

iliveonramen · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
Entitlement spending was paid for by payroll taxes and shouldn't be on budget. the fourth largest budget item is interest on the debt and when interest rates rise it will become much higher. You don't seem to understand the role of the Federal Govt at all or even basic civics and history.

Every number you've ever used on this board has included shortfall in outlays/receipts of entitlements. From your "1 trillion dollar debts" to spending increasing in the Presidents budget. The better question is...do you know anything about the numbers you post?

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

iliveonramen said:
Every number you've ever used on this board has included shortfall in outlays/receipts of entitlements. From your "1 trillion dollar debts" to spending increasing in the Presidents budget. The better question is...do you know anything about the numbers you post?

LOL, you show that you don't have a clue. Yes, I understand the budget process more than you or any other liberal here. It really is a shame that you continue to support an economic failure because of your own ignorance about public debt and intergovt. holdings as well as how IOU's for SS are going to be funded. You are exactly the kind of voter Obama loves having and you are getting exactly what you deserve, massive debt, high unemployment, low economic growth, greater govt. dependence all funded by someone else. What happens when you run out of other peoples' money to spend?

pbrauer · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
Do you have an explanation for a 500,000 drop in the labor force from December 2012 to March 2013? Can you explain why since December 2007 when the recession began that the labor force grew from 153.9 to 155 or a 1.1 million increase in 5 plus years? That a success story for liberalism? January 2012 numbers up 100,000 over December 2012 but down 600,000 in March vs. January 2013. Please stop making a fool of yourself, it is embarrassing.

As you can plainly see from the graph, the numbers fluctuate quite a bit.

jimbo · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Erod said:
It wasn't "our way" that caused it, but you keep telling yourself that. It was Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac that caused the crash of 2008. You kept pushing and threatening over lending "inequities", and you got what you asked for.

While I agree that Barney, Cris, and the rest had a large part, I did not hear a single warning from anyone one on either side that giving home loans to those who could not afford them was a bad idea. GWB gave a 23 minute speech stating that everyone deserved home ownership. That the bubble would burst is simply economics 101.

Twice in my life I have been in a position to watch the inevitable happen with government both from a low level position, and in both instances, the outcome was obvious. The first was the Berlin wall, the second the mortgage collapse. The first as an intelligence analyst watching the Soviets amass troops and building supplies and equipment along the wall site, the second as an appraiser who met with many of the buyers and the homes. Both were obvious, both ignored by government.

iliveonramen · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
LOL, you show that you don't have a clue. Yes, I understand the budget process more than you or any other liberal here. It really is a shame that you continue to support an economic failure because of your own ignorance about public debt and intergovt. holdings as well as how IOU's for SS are going to be funded. You are exactly the kind of voter Obama loves having and you are getting exactly what you deserve, massive debt, high unemployment, low economic growth, greater govt. dependence all funded by someone else. What happens when you run out of other peoples' money to spend?

Then why did you start a thread talking about a 3.77 trillion dollar budget when that number includes the entitlement spending you now are saying shouldn't be discussed.

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

pbrauer said:
As you can plainly see from the graph, the numbers fluctuate quite a bit.

That doesn't answer the question, a drop of 600,000 in two months of 2013 in what liberals call an improving economy? You simply cannot admit that you are wrong with regards to this President and his failed economic policies. What incentive is there for any business to hire or for that matter any non employed individual to seek a job when there is this much govt. assistance available?

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

iliveonramen said:
Then why did you start a thread talking about a 3.77 trillion dollar budget when that number includes the entitlement spending you now are saying shouldn't be discussed.

Why? because until politicians get their act together entitlement spending remains on budget and Intergovt. holdings keeps filling up IOU's. I have proposed here many times the solution but like all liberals you don't want solutions you just want to place blame and overlook/divert from Obama's incompetence. Bush's numbers included entitlement spending as well and he never had a budget over 3.1 trillion dollars. Obama hasn't had a budget uner 3.5 trillion thus trillion dollar deficits that would have been much worse were it not for funding from SS/Medicare money put on budget

Erod · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

jimbo said:
While I agree that Barney, Cris, and the rest had a large part, I did not hear a single warning from anyone one on either side that giving home loans to those who could not afford them was a bad idea. GWB gave a 23 minute speech stating that everyone deserved home ownership. That the bubble would burst is simply economics 101.

Twice in my life I have been in a position to watch the inevitable happen with government both from a low level position, and in both instances, the outcome was obvious. The first was the Berlin wall, the second the mortgage collapse. The first as an intelligence analyst watching the Soviets amass troops and building supplies and equipment along the wall site, the second as an appraiser who met with many of the buyers and the homes. Both were obvious, both ignored by government.

Oh, I'm with you in that frustration. Too afraid were the Republicans of being labeled racist to fight a horribly flawed idea at the time, so they went along with the dead-end plan.

Yet another reason you don't give the government even more money and power to squander our future.

ReformCollege · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

iguanaman said:
You watched the Republican ideology crash and burn in 2008, losing the faith of the American people and 2 Presidential elections yet you still cling to it like it never happened. We tried it your way and didn't like the results. Time for something different.

The Republican Ideology currently is far too infected with pushing a "conservative" approach to socialistic ideals and principles. And evangelicals, far too many of those too.

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

pbrauer said:
As you can plainly see from the graph, the numbers fluctuate quite a bit.

By the way looks like you found the 500,000, good job, knew you could do it. Ready to apologize yet?

jimbo · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Erod said:
Oh, I'm with you in that frustration. Too afraid were the Republicans of being labeled racist to fight a horribly flawed idea at the time, so they went along with the dead-end plan.

Yet another reason you don't give the government even more money and power to squander our future.

But it wasn't racist. Most of the homes I appraised were upper middle class homes, sold with little or no down to people already over extended. I had one builder specializing in lower middle class homes, and there the clients were very mixed.

I think it was all about buying or keeping votes, and the inherent desire of humans to be liked. I think the latter applies especially to Bush.

So where are we heading now? Obama and his administration is floating trial balloons concerning easing loan restrictions to bolster the economy. We never learn, or maybe you and I do not understand the problem

rcart76 · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

The right is complaining that his budget is too far left and at the same time the left is complaining that his budget is too far right......

Dude WTF !!!!! HE CAN'T WIN !!!!!

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

rcart76 said:
The right is complaining that his budget is too far left and at the same time the left is complaining that his budget is too far right......

Dude WTF !!!!! HE CAN'T WIN !!!!!

View attachment 67145885

3.77 trillion when we are broke isn't a winning budget or stance

falcata · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
Wrong, most of the world countries have failed because they believe it is the role of the govt. to provide cradle to grave coverage with much of their economy dependent on govt. spending. It is liberal tendencies for the govt. to take on the role of the parent and that never was the intent. This country was built on self reliance, personal responsibility, and neighbor helping neighbor, not a massive central govt. taking care of all your needs.

No. what has taken down many civilizations was their inability to adapt with changing times and technologies usually because of conservatives ideals. Again Imperial China at many points the most powerful nation on earth succumb to their conservative policies.

Please give me a valid example.

Conservative · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

falcata said:
No. what has taken down many civilizations was their inability to adapt with changing times and technologies usually because of conservatives ideals. Again Imperial China at many points the most powerful nation on earth succumb to their conservative policies.

Please give me a valid example.

your opinion noted, upon what do you base that opinion on? Entitlement mentality and massive govt. spending is unsustainable and we are seeing that in Europe. Check out govt spending as a percentage of GDP

falcata · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
your opinion noted, upon what do you base that opinion on? Entitlement mentality and massive govt. spending is unsustainable and we are seeing that in Europe. Check out govt spending as a percentage of GDP

Not opinion, but fact. China failed to modernize and could not compete with western nations in the 1800's. This caused the British to thrash the Chinese in the First Opium war, Leaving them vulnerable to the west for the rest of the century. You criticize another for not knowing history, but you don't even know it yourself.

You still haven't given me an example of a great nation succumbed to their liberal policies. You said there were several so i'm sure it won't be hard.

Gimmesometruth · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
3.77 trillion when we are broke isn't a winning budget or stance

Is this more of your well developed economic analysis, because if it is, I think you need to re-evaluate your statement.

Grant · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
You really don't understand the budget process or what is in the budget, do you? SS/Medicare were indeed fully funded but the money was spent when it was put on budget by LBJ to fund the Vietnam War. Learn your history. I love how you ignore the Obama lies yet blame Repubicans for lying. That is typical liberalism and the inability to ever admit that you are wrong.

Learn their history?

The country is over 235 years old and they can only go back as far as George Bush. That's the extent of what they think they know.

iguanaman · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Erod said:
Oh, I'm with you in that frustration. Too afraid were the Republicans of being labeled racist to fight a horribly flawed idea at the time, so they went along with the dead-end plan.

Yet another reason you don't give the government even more money and power to squander our future.

Went along? They turbo-charged subprimes and even protected the banks from State regulations against predatory mortgages. The subprime mortgages sold during the Bush years were unlike ANY before. They violated many State laws with their "teaser" rates and balloon interest rates that often tripled the monthly payment after 2 years. They were WRITTEN to fail and that is what they did. That is what the Republicans liked about them I guess...they were scamming the poor and middle class out of their homes and their banker friends were making billion in bonuses. What could be better?

AlabamaPaul · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

iguanaman said:
Went along? They turbo-charged it and even protected the banks from State regulation against predatory mortgages. The subprime mortgages sold during the Bush years were unlike ANY before. The violated many State laws with their "teaser" rates and balloon interest rates that often tripled the monthly payment after 2 years. The were WRITTEN to fail and that is what they did.

Are ARM's illegal today? I think not as I have one. If you're too stupid to understand what you're signing, don't sign...

Grant · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

falcata said:
No. what has taken down many civilizations was their inability to adapt with changing times and technologies usually because of conservatives ideals. Again Imperial China at many points the most powerful nation on earth succumb to their conservative policies.

Please give me a valid example.

Yes, Barrack Obama's policies may have worked quite well in Imperial China. Unfortunately he's in the here and now.

falcata · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Grant said:
Yes, Barrack Obama's policies may have worked quite well in Imperial China. Unfortunately he's in the here and now.

That is not the point of this conversation. It's just a general statement of whether liberalism or conservatism usually leads to the end of most great civilizations.

Grant · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

falcata said:
That is not the point of this conversation. It's just a general statement of whether liberalism or conservatism usually leads to the end of most great civilizations.

And you feel that the policies of Imperial China equate to the situation facing the United States today? Or is it your claim that change, any change, is good?

Visbek · Apr 10, 2013

Re: Obama Budget, higher taxes and more spending

Conservative said:
Here is the chart you want to ignore.... Declining labor force each month of 2013.

And here's the chart you want to ignore.

The decline in labor participation started in 2002.

It's not because of government policies, it's a long-term demographic and structural shift.

Obama sends Congress $3.77T spending plan, riles both sides

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Obama sends Congress $3.77T spending plan, riles both sides

Pontificator

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Pontificator

Well-known member

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Dr. Tongue’s Evil House of Pancakes

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Stuck In The Circle

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