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Obama claimed that everyone has to sacrifice. So that means the rich have to pay even more taxes while everyone else does not. SO what will everyone sacrifice if they can keep their Bush tax rates? THEY GET LESS GOVERNMENT SPENDING.
So the rich sacrifice by paying taxes, everyone else loses some government handouts or benefits
Using Obamalogic that prove the rich pay for the programs and everyone else benefits from them
yeah, he asked for shared sacrifice. no surprise you're against that. when we cut spending, who do you think is affected? the wealthy? lol!
I think it all depends on what kind of country you want to live in.
If you're going to cut funding to programs that help the disadvantaged, yet leave a few percentage points of taxes, when theyre obviously not helping to spur the economy, and the rich lived quite comfortably before they had them it would seem to make sense to the outsider that the balanced approach is the way to go.
However obamas approach does not cut enough spending that I will tell you.
A few percent should not b
e the catalyst for a financial meltdown of epic proportions.
turtlydude said:the rich fund programs and the rest of Americans use them
Well, since the poor and middle class fund the rich in the first place, this seems entirely fair.
turtledude said:that has no basis in fact except you are right about many of those who are rich through government office. In that case you are absolutely right
yeah, he asked for shared sacrifice. no surprise you're against that. when we cut spending, who do you think is affected? the wealthy? lol!
You surely can't claim that the wealthy actually produced their own wealth. Their poor and middle class employees did most of that. I suggest you actually read the wealth of nations by Adam Smith (you know, the classic work of economics on which capitalism is based); he explains this in considerable detail. And he would take a very dim view of the "don't raise taxes on the rich" clamour that is raised by some folks these days.
I'm down for that. let's means-test the entitlements.
turtledude said:its funny watching the far left (several quote Smith) refer to someone like Smith while ignoring our founding fathers and their views on income taxes.
turtledude said:As if you are in a position to speak for what Smith would say today
Do we really need another "Life isn't fair for rich people!" thread? We get it dude.
Just because I didn't mention them doesn't mean I ignore them...though I would also admit that I don't quite have the hero worship for them that some do. I'd be perfectly fine with abolishing income tax and payroll tax altogether, provided that we also went back to before corporations were considered legal persons and we could figure out one other trick: now that we have income and payroll tax, and have had them for some time, it's fairly easy to show that a great deal of wealth has been extorted, through taxation, from the middle and lower classes. There has been wealth redistribution, and it's all been flowing upward lately. Figure out how to reverse that and reset to, say, a few years after World War I, and I'd be fine with doing away with income and payroll tax. We could then go with what Smith said we need to do to have a wealthy nation: deregulate prices and regulate wages.
If I am not, why are you in a position to speak for what the founding fathers would say today?
Do we really need another "Life isn't fair for rich people!" thread? We get it dude.
we have the constitution, and the papers created by those who ratified it. There is an entire subject called constitutional scholarship surrounding that subject.
taxation is not sending money to the most industrious people. commerce is. that is where the welfare socialist nitwits fail. They pretend that its the tax structure that allows the most talented people (and in some cases the most lucky) to get rich. that is false. The tax system today actually prevents lots of people from getting richer because it punishes thrift and the estate tax prevents the somewhat rich from getting really rich
do we really need another non relevant diversion from someone who is part of the soak the rich crowd?-most of the threads you whine about were started by your fellow travelers and I was pointing out the obvious intent of the speech
Yes, I will keep complaining about the rich paying slightly more in taxes. I'd much rather live in a country where half live in squalor and filth and the other half live in mansions.
TurtleDude said:we have the constitution, and the papers created by those who ratified it. There is an entire subject called constitutional scholarship surrounding that subject.
TurtleDude said:taxation is not sending money to the most industrious people.
Turtledude said:Commerce is.
turtledude said:that is where the welfare socialist nitwits fail. They pretend that its the tax structure that allows the most talented people (and in some cases the most lucky) to get rich. that is false.
Turtledude said:The tax system today actually prevents lots of people from getting richer because it punishes thrift and the estate tax prevents the somewhat rich from getting really rich.
Let me paraphrase that for you...
Just as we have "The Wealth of Nations" and "The Theory of Moral Sentiments," along with various minor works. We also have his correspondence, notes from his students, and things written about him by his contemporaries. And of course, there are plenty of scholars of Smith. So I ask once again: if we cannot know what Smith would have said about today's world, why can we know what the founding fathers would have thought?
I agree. It is sending money to the wealthy, however.
This, however, I think is not really correct, unless you adjust the meaning of the word "industrious" so that this is true by definition. There is a profound difference between money and wealth.
It's incomplete, but not false.
I have no problem with someone earning money. But the rich, by and large, do not earn their money. They use complicated rules they've paid to have set up to cause money to accrue to them.
I agree that the way to fix this is not more taxes, though more taxes for the wealthy is a short-term remedy. Ultimately, however, we need to change our culture and also how money works, as well as what it is founded upon.
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