IOW Obama is saying-
Terrorism works.
Good for Obama. it is time to start talking and problem solving instead of killing and dying.Barack Obama administration 'prepared to talk to Hamas' | World news | guardian.co.uk
Yeah, look at that, Obama wanting to reverse the decision to isolate Hamas. Just freaking brilliant. I'm sure the Israelis just feel all kinds of safe with this genius coming to the WH. He starts this crap up and the first notion they have Iran is gonna get a Bomb out they'll attack, cause were I them, I sure as **** wouldn't put my trust in Obama.
I'm inventing nothing.
You're saying that under no circumstances, no matter how heinous or barbaric the enemy is in making a school a military target, it is never acceptable to bomb a school, ever.
I came up with a relatively mundane hypothetical which doesn't assume much barabarism, just a natural reaction by an even mildly unscrupulous enemy to the knowledge that we would never bomb a school under any circumstances, and you dismiss it out of hand.
The Soviets planted bombs on toys to blow the limbs off Afghani kids in order to demoralize their parents, and they were boy scouts compared to some people in the world. Do you really think someone simply housing a missile launcher in a school is beyond the pale? If so, your lack of imagination is staggering.
Oh, and . . .
Gaza Schoolyard Missile Launchers Discovered - Defense/Middle East - Israel News - Israel National News
If it is so probable, could you give me one, just ONE single solitary example of a legitimate threat being housed in a school. Just one.
Unless we enter Harshaws make-believe land of bubble-gum princes and gumdrop dragons, where schools are really transformers that change from schools into missile silos, there is never sufficient justification for bombing a school, no matter how heinous the opponent is in their cowardly attempts to use that school to protect themselves.
Let me reiterate since you seem to think a portable missile launcher qualifies:
You have yet to show me a legitimate threat existing that would warrant a school being blown up.
Here, so that you are happy, let me change my original statment:
You see, my statement did not delve into the land of make-believe. It dealt with reality. If you think a piss-ant little RPG is enough of a reason to slaughter children, then you are as bad as the terrorists.
Until you show me a legitimate threat (Keyword: Legitimate) coming from a school, you might as well be talking about bubble-gum prince vs. the gumdrop dragon, because you're playing in the land of make-believe in order to justify killing children.
OK.
At this point, you're just avoiding answering the (as I said, relatively mundane) hypothetical. That's fine. It's your choice.
But don't pretend you're doing anything other than that. You are demonstrating a textbook example of "protesting too much."
Hamas is known to launch attacks from atop houses and civilian buildings, transport terrorist inside abulences. They know that people in the west will freak out when Israel takes out these targets.
Hamas 1, Israel 0 in the PR war.
Tucker. Dude.
You're seriously arguing that by saying "there is never a justification," you're simply saying "there isn't one at this moment in time"? Really?
Are you REALLY saying "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is"? I mean, really?
It does not take much imagination to figure that an enemy will put weapons in a school if it knows we'll never bomb it. I give you more than enough credit that you understand that. Please give me the same respect back and just answer the damn hypo.
Or, as I said, don't. It is your choice. But come ON. Really.
Hamas is known to launch attacks from atop houses and civilian buildings, transport terrorist inside abulences. They know that people in the west will freak out when Israel takes out these targets.
Hamas 1, Israel 0 in the PR war.
So what is YOUR solution to the conflict? Or did you just create this thread to bitch about someone ELSE trying to solve it?
Well, we could keep doing the same failed method as before.
Hamas launches rockets into Israel, by the thousands, Israel responds, the world seeks "a way to end the violence!" and Israel is forced to stop. Hamas regroups, wash rinse repeat.
OR we could make Israel give up more land, so that the Palestinians can find peace... wait did that, that just keeps bringing more rockets closer to Israeli cities.
We could just let Israel achieve it's objective of smashing Hamas into nothing and seeing if that works, crazy notion, taking out the group that keeps launching rockets at Israel.
Peace is an objective most often achieved not with words, but swords.
It's time that Israel (and the United States) deals with Hamas. It is not a monolithic entity. The leadership is very much divided over whether to fight to the death or negotiate some kind of peace with Israel. The pragmatists within Hamas can be negotiated with.
OK. I'd like for that to happen.
But what can Hamas be given that will satisfy it, considering it specifically exists to destroy Israel?
OK. I'd like for that to happen.
But what can Hamas be given that will satisfy it,
Harshaw said:considering it specifically exists to destroy Israel?
Well, first, you must get them to cut that **** out. Tell them no agreement can be reached until they publically admit Israel has a fundamental right to existance. That would be the primary condition needed to be met in order to move forward.
Make that clear to them, and then start negotiations AFTER that condition has been laid out. they get not being bombed as their incentive for that condition.
OK. How are you going to do that? What can you offer them?
This isn't rhetorical. What do you do?
Israel and the pragmatists within Hamas can negotiate for an end to the blockade, assurances that Israel will never overthrow Hamas in Gaza or assist Fatah in doing so, control over the borders to Gaza, and the release of some low-level Hamas prisoners.
That is incorrect. Hamas is partially a political party, partially a charitable social services organization, and partially a terrorist group. It has other purposes besides the destruction of Israel, and there are many members within Hamas who are willing to jettison that goal under the right circumstances.
The "I don't like you so I'm going to call you bad names and not going to talk to you" foreign policy of the Bush administration didn't produce great results.
Got a peace agreement between Israel and Jordon in 1993.
What's Bush accomplished. Other than starting the wrong war by mistake, I mean.
Obama shouldn't even get involved, let Hamas and Israel kill each other.
It does other incidental things, but its central purpose is the destruction of Israel.
Harshaw said:Having observed this situation for several decades now, it's pretty hard not to come to the conclusion that the only satisfactory result from "Palestinian" side of things will be the end of Israel. As long as Israel exists, this conflict will continue.
Harshaw said:The only thing Israel can give which will "work" is its own suicide.
Much of the rest of the world seems to be pretty OK with that. Should we be? If not, what should we do?
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