NYC Mayoral Election Discussion

[BirdinHand]

To be clear, standard low income for individuals in NY starts at around $55,000 (with an upper limit of ~$90k), where Cuomo and Mamdani are in a dead tie; that is how insanely expensive it is to live there. Very/ultra-low income is anything below that.

High income for individuals in NY begins at a bit over $100k. Cuomo easily takes down the very high+ income demography which should come as no surprise, though they are vastly outnumbered by those that are simply high income within that bracket.

$100K is middle class in NYC.

You have to be well over $250K to be high income in NYC

 

[gman]

NYC is one of the safest major metropolitan areas around.

Please. Don’t make it sound like they don’t have problems. It all depends on where you live, work, and recreate. But I will admit it’s way better than Chicago or LA.

 

[BirdinHand]

Please. Don’t make it sound like they don’t have problems. It all depends on where you live, work, and recreate. But I will admit it’s way better than Chicago or LA.

It’s the safest major metro area in all of the US

Every major metro area has problems - that happens when you have a large concentration of individuals living in one area.

But for actual crime? NYC is rated lower than the entirety of the US. They have better statistics than the US as a whole and better than any other major metro area.

 

[gman]

It’s the safest major metro area in all of the US

Every major metro area has problems - that happens when you have a large concentration of individuals living in one area.

But for actual crime? NYC is rated lower than the entirety of the US. They have better statistics than the US as a whole and better than any other major metro area.

So why screw it all up by electing someone who endorses failed criminal justice policies?

 

[Surrealistik]

$100K is middle class in NYC.

You have to be well over $250K to be high income in NYC

Basically going by this:

Area Median Income - HPD

www.nyc.gov

I definitely should have used a stronger word than 'a bit', or preceded it with 'quite' though, lol.

For an individual, you start getting to be 'upper class/high income' when you hit over ~185k.

As someone who left NYC in part because of the absurd cost of living there for relatively minimal benefit when I can work remotely (but mostly because the city constantly smells of garbage and piss and the people there are legendarily rude), I definitely appreciate that it is easily one of the most expensive places to live on the planet. This is also definitely a big part of why Mamdani won; Democrats who are interested in actually winning elections going forward should be taking notes instead of crying that their guy who routinely molested women and engaged in prolific corruption didn't clinch it.

 

[cpwill]

That's a rather deceptive and coping mischaracterization; the only demography Mamdani resoundingly lost was black voters, and to a lesser extent, lower income voters:

....I like how you agree with the basic description of the facts, but try to claim it's a "coping mechanism".

That the more-educated, whiter sections of the Democrat party are far more progressive than other parts of the coalition (particularly black voters) is not exactly "new" information.

 

[Surrealistik]

....I like how you agree with the basic description of the facts, but try to claim it's a "coping mechanism".

That the more-educated, whiter sections of the Democrat party are far more progressive than other parts of the coalition (particularly black voters) is not exactly "new" information.

1. I actually don't. It's not at all correct when you key incomes to the NY standard as I've shown earlier. Cuomo is far and away the winner among the wealthy. As stated earlier in this thread, NY's 'upper class' or 'high income' only begins north of $187k: https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/area-median-income.page and Cuomo, per the below graphic, absolutely and unquestionably domineers there. In otherwords, Cuomo wins the fringe extremes of New York's destitute, upper class and rich, and Mamdani wins literally everyone else.

2. Even if we were to grant that description *is* technically true (it's not, to be clear), it is absolutely coping because in its lie of omission with respect to Mamdani's win of literally every demography that isn't black and the poor, such a framing clearly aims to dismiss the authenticity and validity of his victory. It is a clumsy, transparent attempt to project Cuomo's candidacy as an artifice and contrivance of by and for elites, unto Zohran, rather than accurately acknowledging the latter's success clearly arose from the grass roots.

 

[aociswundumho]

This is also definitely a big part of why Mamdani won; Democrats who are interested in actually winning elections going forward should be taking notes instead of crying that their guy who routinely molested women and engaged in prolific corruption didn't clinch it.

Cost of living is the worst issue the left could ever run on. Mamdani is not going to reduce the cost of living in NYC. My guess is he will increase it.

 

[Surrealistik]

Cost of living is the worst issue the left could ever run on. Mamdani is not going to reduce the cost of living in NYC. My guess is he will increase it.

Except, contrary to your baseless opining, it was clearly and demonstrably one of the very best issues he could have run on as he absolutely blew Cuomo out while doing so, despite the latter's vastly superior financial backing and institutional support.

 

[aociswundumho]

Except, contrary to your baseless opining, it was clearly and demonstrably one of the very best issues he could have run on as he absolutely blew Cuomo out while doing so, despite the latter's vastly superior financial backing and institutional support.

Oh I agree with that part. The problem is he won't be able to deliver on his most salient campaign promise.

 

[Surrealistik]

Oh I agree with that part. The problem is he won't be able to deliver on his most salient campaign promise.

Even if what you claim is true (unlikely), cost of living isn't 'worst issue the left could ever run on', because you can't do **** all if you don't win.

Second, he won't be able to deliver according to who? You? Though it's possible he'll fail, given your batting average, I would consider your negative outlook more an affirmation that he'll succeed than anything else.

 

[aociswundumho]

Even if what you claim is true (unlikely), cost of living isn't 'worst issue the left could ever run on', because you can't do **** all if you don't win.

Ok, you're right about that part.

Second, he won't be able to deliver according to who? You?

House and rent prices, food prices, utility prices, etc can all be tracked. I'll make the bold prediction that none of them will be down at the end of his term compared to what they cost now.

Though it's possible he'll fail, given your batting average, I would consider your negative outlook more an affirmation that he'll succeed than anything else.

I bet he would win.

Post in thread 'Andrew Cuomo vs. Zohran Mamdani for NYC Mayor'

Jun 18, 2025

I put some money on zohran to win over on predictit. That guy is the most naturally gifted politician ever. Smart, likeable and answers tough questions with ease.

• aociswundumho

• 

 

[Surrealistik]

House and rent prices, food prices, utility prices, etc can all be tracked. I'll make the bold prediction that none of them will be down at the end of his term compared to what they cost now.

They certainly can be. Further, success would be to beget disinflation of their prices, not deflation across the board (which is nigh impossible). Moreover, unlike the vague and half-hearted offerings of his competition, which almost certainly would not meaningfully decelerate those prices, he actually has a chance of being successful here.

I bet he would win.

I award zero points for something so obvious. To cleave closer to what I'm talking about, my familiarity with you as a poster is dropping some kind of dogmatic nonsense extreme anarcho-capitalist or right libertarian take/revisionism, and shortly thereafter getting absolutely dumped on by a multitude of different posters explicating with facts exactly how you're wrong.

 

[aociswundumho]

They certainly can be.

Absolutely. But not by a leftist. Everything the left supports raises prices for consumers, e.g. unions, corporate taxes, environmental bullshit, endless layers of red tape, and on and on.

Further, success would be to beget disinflation of their prices, not deflation across the board (which is nigh impossible). Moreover, unlike the vague and half-hearted offerings of his competition, which almost certainly would not meaningfully decelerate those prices, he actually has a chance of being successful here.

How does a rent freeze help increase the supply of housing?

I award zero points for something so obvious.

He was at 16 cents when I bet on him.

 

[Surrealistik]

Absolutely. But not by a leftist. Everything the left supports raises prices for consumers, e.g. unions, corporate taxes, environmental bullshit, endless layers of red tape, and on and on.

Reading comprehension; I was agreeing that prices can be tracked and success can be measured.

How does a rent freeze help increase the supply of housing?

Literally 10 seconds (if that) of research later:

Zohran for NYC

Zohran Mamdani is running for Mayor to lower the cost of living for working class New Yorkers.

www.zohranfornyc.com

• Triple the amount of housing built with City capital funds. A Mamdani administration will construct 200,000 new affordable homes over 10 years for low-income households, seniors, and working families.By putting the public sector in the driver’s seat, we’ll be able to increase the share of new units built that are affordable to families who are low-income or are stuck in our City’s shelter system. We’ll significantly expand programs that serve families with the greatest need:
  • HPD’s Senior Affordable Rental Apartments (SARA), which produces 100% affordable low-income housing for seniors.
  • HPD’s Extremely Low and Low-Income Affordability (ELLA), which produces 100% affordable housing for families who earn less than $72,000 for a family of four
  • HRA’s Master Lease Program, which allows the City to pool its rental assistance programs (like CityFHEPS) to create project-based, subsidized housing for families at risk of eviction and/or living in the shelter program. This will go even further, as Zohran will drop lawsuits against CityFHEPs and ensure expansion proceeds as scheduled and per City Law.
• Recommit to public housing. Federal, state, and city disinvestment have left NYCHA tenants with crumbling buildings and uncertain futures. Zohran will double the City’s capital investment in major renovations of NYCHA housing, activate underutilized storage areas like parking lots for affordable housing development, and use tools like City subsidies to invest money directly in upgrading our public housing. Some of the City capital for new construction will be used to build new affordable, publicly-controlled housing on NYCHA’s City-owned land. Zohran will also push Albany to make a similar commitment to NYCHA’s capital needs on an annual basis.
• Invest in our public sector workforce. Zohran will fully fund and staff the operating budgets of the City’s housing agencies—including Housing Preservation & Development (HPD), the Department of City Planning (DCP), and the New York City Housing Authority (NYCHA)—which have been woefully neglected under Mayor Adams.Zohran will increase staffing levels for financial closing and project management in construction and renovation pipelines to move projects forward more quickly. By increasing the number of people who work at HPD, DCP, and especially NYCHA, we’ll increase the City’s ability to ensure housing gets preserved and built.
• Fast-track planning review. Any project that commits to the administration’s affordability, stabilization, union labor, and sustainability goals will be expedited through land use review.

He was at 16 cents when I bet on him.

He was and is a greatly talented, charismatic politician speaking directly to the issues that mattered most to the majority of NYC whose primary opposition was an establishment sleazebag infamous for proven corruption and molesting women solely propped up by a huge monetary advantage.

Fingering him as a winner is less about (fore/in)sight and more about actually paying attention.

 

[aociswundumho]

Reading comprehension; I was agreeing that prices can be tracked and success can be measured.

This is our exchange:

House and rent prices, food prices, utility prices, etc can all be tracked. I'll make the bold prediction that none of them will be down at the end of his term compared to what they cost now.

They certainly can be.

How was I supposed to know you were responding to the first sentence instead of the second? Next time put the sentence in bold.

Literally 10 seconds (if that) of research later:

How about answering the question.

He was and is a greatly talented, charismatic politician speaking directly to the issues that mattered most to the majority of NYC whose primary opposition was an establishment sleazebag infamous for proven corruption and molesting women solely propped up by a huge monetary advantage.

Fingering him as a winner is less about (fore/in)sight and more about actually paying attention.

Well the market didn't think so, which is why I got him so cheap.

 

[Surrealistik]

This is our exchange:

How was I supposed to know you were responding to the first sentence instead of the second? Next time put the sentence in bold.

Because 'They certainly can be'. does not track particularly well in response to 'I'll make the bold prediction that none of them will be down at the end of his term compared to what they cost now.' especially not vis a vis 'House and rent prices, food prices, utility prices, etc can all be tracked.'

But sure, in the future I'll be certain to bold/clip.

How about answering the question.

Either you are completely oblivious to Mamdani's platform, or it's a disingenuous question being asked in bad faith (something you do often), as if to imply that is the extent of his plan.

Rent freezes are obviously an interim solution to help contain housing prices, while the remainder of his plan works on directly addressing housing supply.

Well the market didn't think so, which is why I got him so cheap.

The so-called betting market was clearly wrong as it often is and evidently overlooked several obvious key points.

 

[aociswundumho]

Rent freezes are obviously an interim solution to help contain housing prices,

They discourage builders from building new housing.

while the remainder of his plan works on directly addressing housing supply.

The progressive regulatory state is going to destroy his dream. He will quickly become entangled in a complex web of permitting, environmental bullshit, and nimbys who like their neighborhoods just as they are.

 

[Surrealistik]

They discourage builders from building new housing.

I'm sure they do to some extent, but as with anything, there is a calculus to be had between the harm vs benefit.

Clearly the assumed calculus is that the benefit of freezing rents outweighs the adverse consequence, and it may well be correct, particularly with other mechanisms being employed to directly expand the housing supply.

The progressive regulatory state is going to destroy his dream. He will quickly become entangled in a complex web of permitting, environmental bullshit, and nimbys who like their neighborhoods just as they are.

1. Regulation is often pursued, drafted and invoked not just by progressives and the political left (in their case often for commendable reasons that at least seek to serve the public good), but by rent seekers, special interests and corporations that aim to leverage it as a bludgeon to preserve and expand their market share who clearly align with the political right if anyone. To preempt the usual libertarian nonsense about doing away with govt's power to effect regulation, that cure is worse than this disease, nevermind that there are alternate solutions that have been proven effective like insulating public office from private money and professional lobbying. This manner of political corruption is something that is expected from capitalism in light of its goal of maximizing profit/shareholder value, and should be safeguarded against.

2. Cool story bro. I'm sure there will indeed be regulatory obstacles that complicate the process for entirely understandable reasons, but I'm much less assured they will wholly scuttle his plan.

 

[aociswundumho]

2. Cool story bro. I'm sure there will indeed be regulatory obstacles that complicate the process for entirely understandable reasons, but I'm much less assured they will wholly scuttle his plan.

I hope he wins and we get to find out.

 

[cpwill]

1. I actually don't. It's not at all correct when you key incomes to the NY standard as I've shown earlier. Cuomo is far and away the winner among the wealthy. As stated earlier in this thread, NY's 'upper class' or 'high income' only begins north of $187k: https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/area-median-income.page and Cuomo, per the below graphic, absolutely and unquestionably domineers there. In otherwords, Cuomo wins the fringe extremes of New York's destitute, upper class and rich, and Mamdani wins literally everyone else.

2. Even if we were to grant that description *is* technically true (it's not, to be clear), it is absolutely coping because in its lie of omission with respect to Mamdani's win of literally every demography that isn't black and the poor, such a framing clearly aims to dismiss the authenticity and validity of his victory. It is a clumsy, transparent attempt to project Cuomo's candidacy as an artifice and contrivance of by and for elites, unto Zohran, rather than accurately acknowledging the latter's success clearly arose from the grass roots.

No, it's a point about a division within the Democrat Party. If anything, I'd call it a fight between the Theater Kids and the Traditional Base, but Mamdani won the primary; I'm not aware of anyone pretending otherwise.

Not everything you don't like is an attack on The Precious. It's not cute when Trump defenders do it, and it's not convincing, here.

However, this:

View attachment 67577437

Along with the point you raise about local living costs in New York are worthy caveats.

 

[Surrealistik]

No, it's a point about a division within the Democrat Party. If anything, I'd call it a fight between the Theater Kids and the Traditional Base, but Mamdani won the primary; I'm not aware of anyone pretending otherwise.

Not everything you don't like is an attack on The Precious. It's not cute when Trump defenders do it, and it's not convincing, here.

Again that tiresome, reflexive dismissal of the progressives; 'Theatre Kids'? Please. Are you really so blind to your own prejudices? It's almost as if you cannot help yourself. Meanwhile, the 'Traditional Base' (really more establishment leadership, and wealthy donors but sure, let's ride that euphemism) was factually, and desperately, trying to ramrod a corrupt sex pest and serial molester of women down NYC's throat literally with the sheer weight of money because they didn't like what Mamdani stood for.

Even if I wanted to assume that your commentary was a good faith attempt to point out a fracture or 'infighting', rather than, in my view, a transparent attempt to denigrate Mamdani's victory, it would be difficult because of the cumulative evidence (though not proof) to the contrary.

If I were to be charitable, I would say you arrived at a mistaken conclusion with respect to this race due an inaccurate understanding of what it means to be rich/high income in NYC.

Let's make no mistake; Cuomo was indeed the choice candidate of the rich and powerful, and was the avatar and vehicle of their hopes and ambitions for crushing a grass roots political uprising. Above and beyond the demographic evidence, his war chest explicates as much.

Along with the point you raise about local living costs in New York are worthy caveats.

When it comes to assessments of wealth and income and related demographic analysis, local and relative measures clearly matter.