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NSA: Is the juice worth the squeeze

Wiseone

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We all know that the NSA is trolling through massive amounts of data to stop terrorist attacks from happening on US soil, but is it worth the damage done to our rights, specifically the fourth amendment? Well its difficult to do a true cost-benefit analysis since so much of what the NSA does is unknown, however this article does a fine job with the information we do have and the answer is quite clearly not worth it, not in terms of benefits of security gained or in dollars spent to gain them.

Cost-benefit analysis and state secrecy: Foiled plots and bathtub falls | The Economist
 
Here's the cost benefit analysis:



Wow, that was easy.
 
It sounds like you think you're arguing against my position, but you aren't.

Well, yes and no. Its pretty obvious by reading your post that we're in agreement here. I'm arguing against the notion that a cost-benefit analysis should be done. It doesn't matter if the NSA program would result in everyone getting magical pixies that grant wishes; improper search and/or seizures goes against what we stand for as a people. It's a little insulting that we even have to entertain the idea of a cost-benefit analysis on such a thing. I understand the authors intention in writing this but it's ridiculous to even hint that a cost-benefit analysis means anything to the issue. Would we condone slavery if the benefits outweighed the costs? It's utilitarian nonsense that, while the author clearly does not believe in it, simply gives validity to the notion that it's permissible to sacrifice cornerstones of our society on the basis of some obscure benefit.
 

Well maybe, depending on what reasonable means in "reasonable search and seizure" something that shows a benefit would be easier to argue in court, even the SCOTUS if it went that far, that it is reasonable because benefits are reasonable are they not? Not exactly a slam dunk argument but even if it doesn't mean anything to you, a shown benefit would mean something to other people and to judges.
 

Even with a benefit, you still need probable cause. Blind surveillance, regardless of benefit, can never satisfy probable cause. That is pretty much why probable cause exists.
 
The current US Intelligence gathering strategy also beings in to conflict with other laws such as Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Europe warns US: you must respect the privacy of our citizens | World news | The Guardian

 

To me reasonable, does not include rummaging around in Grandma's emails without probable cause and especially without having exhausted all other options. Those are two barriers to overcome, and I DOUBT the NSA has even cleared the easy one, which is the latter. All I see in the available information is an agency that has built for itself a giant vacuum cleaner that sucks up information from everywhere, and sits there sifting through it looking for problems. That is not probable cause.
 


^^^ And that is the can of worms opened by wireless wiretapping.
 
^^^ And that is the can of worms opened by wireless wiretapping.

Do you mean warrantless? At least in that case they were targetting suspects, not the entire country. And they got a warrant after the fact. Thats a reasonable search, IMO.
 
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