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NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths


The only folks who earn that label...in my eyes has been defined in other posts in this thread. To me, a person who brags about what they will do in the event of self defense is just as sick as the murderer. Both are premeditated actions. If you have never been put in a situation that intense, you have no idea what you will do...you could curl up in the fetal position and beg for your life. It is not the action so much that bothers me...it is the blow hard,
I am more bad ass than you mentality. This could make your average person paranoid and quick to pull the trigger. Even in the event of a home invasion and you killed someone legally, who wants the stigma of that? You would still need an attorney, there would be an investigation, and in my case as a nurse and teacher...what would my workplace think if I shot a unarmed kid stealing my TV. I think the folks who brag about dropping a home intruder only see the kill...not the aftermath. This is what I see as disturbing. Do you wait to see if the intruder is armed...or is that too late?
 

Banning guns will never happen and it is a waste of time to pursue that mindset. I would never worry about that. A politician will never campaign on gun banning, because they will sure lose. Then, think about the American companies who manufacture guns...guns are a huge part of our economy. Obama has no room to scold anyone since he has been impotent on this issue. He is in a position to make a difference and come up with a solution that satisfies everyone, and he didn't. At this point, he needs to STFU. LOL. He has had more mass shootings and violence under his leadership than any I can remember. Gun sales have soared under him. He let that ship sail..and he failed on public safety.
 

You don't go to church much, do you?
 

Again, you are projecting-most gun owners are not trigger happy blow hards. And its not only about how you define gun nuts-there are others who define YOU this way right now, because you own a gun, enjoy shooting it, and belong to a gun club. Think about that-you are a gun nut to them.

I own guns, and have seen up close what they are capable of-good and bad. I have no desire to harm anyone, I heal people for a living and devoted my life to that years ago. And thats besides the legal nightmare-even if you are justified, you will spend years and all of your money in legal defense. But its not a hard decision for me-if I need to protect my own or a loved ones life I will do just that. And if that ever happens, its wont be a pressing concern what others think-but I believe Im lucky enough to work with people who would understand.
 


Hm. By citizen protection you mean? Not really a familiar term to me.

But I'd point out that by spraying him in the eyes you successfully ran him off; I presume he was afraid of what else you might do while he was half-blinded. So you acted effectively.

Running... well if you're a good runner maybe. I'm not. Not built for it. Nor do too many 60-somethings routinely outrun 20-somethings.

I tend to be pretty calm when the SHTF. My brain goes into this "I'm too busy to emote right now, gotta deal with this stuff first then I'll emote later" mode and I don't feel much of anything.

LATER, I get the shakes. But that's later. You can do whatever you want once the threat is over: laugh, cry, throw up, get drunk, doesn't matter as long as you deal when you need to deal. BTDT.
 

Im a realist-when real people really try to take my guns away with through real courts and real laws I take notice. I already live in one of the most anti-gun states in the nation, where you have to be a "somebody" or know someone to get a permit. I see the erosion of my liberties with every new scheme hatched by the left here, from banning superficial cosmetic features that in no way impact a guns operation to ammo no different from the rest except its also used in military rifles.

Obama isn't only impotent, he's inconsistent-where was he to scold us after those NYPD cops were assassinated? How about when Chris Kyle was murdered? It was crickets-because it wasn't advantageous to his agenda. And then he says these shootings dont happen in other advanced nations when I can name a half dozen off the top of my head. At least we agree he needs to STFU. He's needed to for some time.

BTW-gun sails have soared under him because Americans wan't their guns and are worried he's going to attempt to ban them. His comments on this latest shooting are only going to increase them further, as did his attempted ammo ban a few months ago. The left is always probing-seeing what they can get away with.
 

I don't think I am projecting or broad brushing, the folks I know who are gun owners never mention this kind of stuff...maybe they do so in gun threads on forums..LOL. Don't think for one minute you would not be judged for protecting yourself...look what is happening to cops these days. If we can blame victims for their own deaths because they were not carrying...you are not immune from it in the event that you need to use one. I really see victim blaming coming in our future, to those on the far right of this issue. If you are not carrying, you asked for it. Do we really want to go down this road as a civilized Nation?
 


Dear, the anti's use ever such incident as a chance to drum up support for new gun control, so it is only natural that the NRA works to counter their efforts. That's its purpose.

When someone proposes new gun control that would
1. Inhibit the criminals and crazies strongly and the law-abiding gun owner but little;
2. Would actually have a strong positive impact on criminal gun misuse
3. Doesn't violate the 2A or tar with too broad a brush...

Then you'll see gun owner support. Hell the NRA supports *some* gun control, including strict enforcement of all existing laws aimed at barring felons from buying them (which the government sadly doesn't enforce very rigorously at all).

Until then... well, what you said was still very broad-brush and ugly and revealed a hatefulness and bigotry I didn't expect of you. Shame on you.
 
Peter Grimm said:
That's an incredibly disrespectful thing to do in the lord's house.
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Tell it to my pastor. He packs too.

Along with most of the Deacons and several ushers and probably a few more...
 
Peter Grimm said:
That's an incredibly disrespectful thing to do in the lord's house.
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Letting someone murder a bunch of your fellow church members is far more disrespectful, IMO.


Do I really even have to SAY this after what happened in Charleston? and that isn't the first time it's happened.
 

I dont blame the victims, I blame the people who pass laws to make people into victims.
I dont believe the NRA guy was blaming the victims, but the pastor of that church was a political figure who opposed guns.
As for concealed carry, most people will never know I am doing it-and if I ever need the gun I don't care what others think, it was needed to protect my life.
 

I don't see why I need to explain why I have a knife, a sword or gun like I don't see why I need to explain to someone why I have a couch, a bed, a computer, a painting, or whatever else I happen to have around the house. How is it your business what I happen to own and why do I need to explain myself to you about it? Where I keep it is my concern and if something happens it's my problem, so really, back off and stop being such a pest about it.
 

See, that is what I see the far right doing..pushing the safety issue to carry in absurd places...such as college campuses and bars. WFT...Bars? Gun sales soared because we have a sick perception of what reality is. There will never be a gun ban and we all know it. All those gun sales accomplished was increased profits for stores like Walmart...LOL. What we did, we armed more kooks...like the kid who shot up the church. The ammo that was banned, was metal piercing bullets...and could pierce through a bullet proof vest...is this the type of ammo we want our cops to come up against? The right extreme would push for machine guns if they could find a audience to rile up.
 

The "masses"?!
 


As I said earlier, the NRA guy had a point, but he blew it with a bad presentation and WAY too much implication of blame on Senator/Pastor Pinkney.

Personally my thought process, once the shock and dismay had settled a bit, was "darn shame nobody was armed and able to stop that loonie before he killed so many."

I'd say that is a more accurate depiction of how most of us pro types view this issue, than that we BLAME anyone except the shooter.


I don't look down on people who don't carry. I have some loved ones who don't carry and I cherish them and pray for their safety. Mostly I pray that I (or someone like me) is near at hand if they are ever seriously threatened.... since a good guy with a gun is the typically the surest way to stop a bad guy with one.
 

Well...hon..lets agree to disagree about his one. Also, not agreeing or actually despising the NRA does not make one a bigot...learn the definition. Most forum posters use the term bigot too loosely and it does not apply here. Actually, you have disappointed me. I have always held LE is such high regard...heros actually. I am glad the ones I worship with, work with, and my neighbors do not have the "kill shot" mentality. They are among the most honorable men and women I know.
 

You aren't going to have to worry about a lawyer or what your workplace will think if you're dead.
 


Do people get attacked, raped and sometimes murdered on college campi? Yes they do.

Bars is an overstatement... typically we're talking about restaurants that serve alcohol, and you're barred from drinking if you're carrying. We've had that one in my state for a couple years now... no problems to my knowledge.

Actually college campi are KNOWN to be places where rapes and assaults are an issue... why don't you want responsible people to be able to defend themselves on campus?


Is a raped women with her panties around her throat (where they were used to strangle her) somehow morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun in her hand and dead rapist at her feet? Hell no!
 


A bigot is a person who has a hateful attitude towards a group of people that he attributes negative traits to, typically based on bias or ignorance.

Which is exactly what you're doing towards the NRA and NRA members, of whom I and many other reasonable people are among.

What is "kill shot mentality"? I am not familiar with this term. You are aware that ALL cops in all departments are taught to shoot for center of mass and keep shooting until the subject is down, in the event shooting is required? And that this is frequently fatal? And that cops are specifically taught NOT to "shoot to wound" as this is an unrealistic effort likely to fail or result in a miss that might harm a bystander?
 
Goshin said:
Actually college campi are KNOWN to be places where rapes and assaults are an issue... why don't you want responsible people to be able to defend themselves on campus?
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They're also where mass murders have occurred. And BTW, Colorado has allowed concealed-carry on campus for quite some time now with no problems reported.
 
nota bene said:
They're also where mass murders have occurred. And BTW, Colorado has allowed concealed-carry on campus for quite some time now with no problems reported.
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Excellent point. The vast majority of mass murders occur in "gun free zones", such as most schools and college campi are.
 

Why is a college campus an insane place to carry? Are there mass shootings there? This bowl-cut freak in Charleston originally planned to attack a college. A college campus is filled with adults, and with concealed carry the gun is not visible and most will never know. With bars, if the individual isn't drinking or otherwise impaired (at which point he should not be carrying anyway), why shouldn't he be able to protect himself?

Im a history fan and a gun enthusiast, can you explain precisely why there will never be a gun ban? I have no doubt Wal Mart has made money but it was politicians who did that-not wal mart.

The kook could have gotten a gun, built a bomb, or whatever else to accomplish his goal, lets stop trying to legislate based on the actions of an insane person.

The ammo was not banned-thanks to public outcry, but the attempt was made. I have several guns that will penetrate metal and bullet proof vests, most hunting rifles will. Our cops are already come up against it-when criminals break the law.

Law abiding citizens can already own machine guns. And they are almost never used in crime because they are owned by law abiding citizens.
 

Guns don't belong in learning environments. I work in several colleges and the maturity level is just not there. On large University campuses...you are talking about people who are 18-23 years old. Combine alcohol and recreational drugs...this could be a disaster. Why tempt fate? Someone mentioned rape on campuses in a earlier thread...a gun is not going to do a girl any good is she is drugged from a roofie or passed out drunk. College rapes are different from violent sociopath rape...usually there is a lot of alcohol and many mixed messages. The solution to this problem is much different than adding a gun to the mix. Bars and guns are not a good idea. All it takes is a 21 year old, a gun, 3 shots of Jack and a beer...then add a girl...good decisions are not made. Plus if they are bad shots...others can get killed as well. Why can't we all go and share a few drinks in a place of fun..without worrying about who is strapped. These are not extreme requests. Our most recent cop shooting was from a douche in a bar...

Banning guns will never happen in our life time...stop worrying about it. Banning guns would turn this Nation upside down and it will not work in the US. BTW, it is impossible to purchase a machine gun now...and access is scarce. They are legal under a specific code of transferability. One would need a few bucks to purchase one of those.

One off-duty Akron police officer killed, second wounded in bar shooting | cleveland.com
 
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