No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Peter Grimm · Dec 3, 2014

Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Ikari said:
Not according to the corner, it was ruled homicide.

Dude, stop spreading misinformation. When a coroner rules something a homicide, it just means the person didn't die of natural causes. He didn't slip off a bridge, die in his sleep, or take too many pills.

A coroner's job is just to give a scientific opinion as to the cause of death. We can clearly see in the video that the altercation lead to his death. It's not the coroner's job to determine whether there was malice involved which would be necessary for an indictment.

That's the job of the grand jury.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

whysoserious said:
In this article discussing the low return on investment of CPR, it has these statistics:

Those are solid enough for me. And in those cases, they were performed by bystanders who probably have received little to no training. Obviously technique is important:

I'm sorry, but I'm going to remain pro-CPR.

From my training from some time ago I was going to say less than 4% survive under the best of circumstances. A four hundred pounder is not likely to survive a heart attack. Plus he might have carried some exotic disease. At least mouth to mouth is discouraged now.

Oh, in my one real event the man died. I think he was dead before I turned him over. There was no there, there, in his eyes. Fortunately EMT arrived before I started mouth to mouth. From the time I saw him drop to their arrival was less than a couple of minutes. He weighed at least half again more than me.

Hatuey · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
From my training from some time ago I was going to say less than 4% survive under the best of circumstances. A four hundred pounder is not likely to survive a heart attack. Plus he might have carried some exotic disease. At least mouth to mouth is discouraged now.

What exotic disease? Tell us.

beefheart · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
No. It actually isn't. It is beyond time for you to join your locale TEA party and help with the tax revolt. You can recognize us. We are friendly and we pick up our trash.

Bundy doesn't pay his taxes, he is a welfare queen. Why isn't he placed in a chokehold?

vesper · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:
It isn't illegal. It was banned by the NYPD.

(Info just fed to me by Mr. B who called his sister's husband who just retired after 17 years with NYPD) - please confirm on internet if this info is false. My BIL said people who keep calling it "illegal" are wrong, it's not "illegal" just prohibited by the NYPD.

Thanks Tres In some places on the internet it was being reported it was banned in NYC others said illegal. And in some places where it was being reported that way have since removed it.

joko104 · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
Obesity isn't punishable by death.

You want to justify the killing of someone over something so freaking petty.

You are using obesity as your cognitive dissonance. You are the one blood dancing here and praising the actions of an overactive police using deadly force for a silly thing that should be no more than a summons.

Sounds like you are the one licking the jackboots.

Many on this forum.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
"Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air...

...If a person appears to be having difficulty breathing or is otherwise demonstrating life-threatening symptoms, medical assistance will be requested IMMEDIATELY." (NYPD Patrol Guide, 203-11, emphasis in original)

All you folks who stick up for the cops because they were arresting someone for doing something wrong....but you seem to conveniently forget that the cops were breaking their own rules.

Hypocrisy......

WE understand it is against their policy. And the one who used it will probably face discipline.

Can you do a bit more research and show that it is a crime?

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:
After my unsuccessful efforts at elbow licking I actually had my husband just do this (he thinks I'm nuts, but did it anyway). He didn't do it really hard either obviously. I actually couldn't get any statements out. When I couldn't breathe in, there was nothing to expend out. Granted he probably didn't do it the same way as what happened to this guy but no I wasn't able to speak. I had to stomp my foot. Now I'm dizzy too.

I am pretty sure I would still like you dizzy.

joko104 · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There was no way for police officers to know that an morbidly obese older man was not physically fit enough to be tackled by multiple men, chocked and his head pressed into the concrete - and his saying he couldn't breathe certainly could be considered merely a tactical lie by the man hoping to make a counter attack. (that's a sneering statement).

What is MOST important is his 6 children and grandchildren are explained how evil and stupid their father was and why he had to die, which really their father deciding to commit suicide by cop.

Would it fair to estimate his child and his wife will hate all police officers down to the marrow of their bones for the rest of their lives?

This shouldn't have happened. Murder? No. Off the charts? Absolutely.

However, there is the police union, so even discipline strictly prohibited.

The man's mistake - if he was selling one cigarette at a time where they are taxed to the point to being only a rich man's luxury in NYC - was he tried to earn a living. Really, he should have been collecting disability and staying home - unless out protesting for more benefits.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

shrubnose said:
Some people have always done what they shouldn't do.

Why did the cop use an illegal choke-hold and why did the grand jury give him a pass? :roll:

Would you please point to the law that shows us that this hold was illegal? Many have stated it. At least one of you, between eye-rolls, should provide the link to the relevant statute.

beefheart · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
WE understand it is against their policy. And the one who used it will probably face discipline.

Can you do a bit more research and show that it is a crime?

Someone is dead.

Over a stupid offense that shouldn't even be an arrestable crime.

Enjoy your police state.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

whysoserious said:
I've already responded to someone about this saying easily was the wrong word - I just mean easily as in it's easy to do and it is helpful. It could have saved his life.

I do not believe so. It might have saved the life of a healthy, fit 20 year old. This guy carried two hundred pounds of fat. He was walking dead.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

haymarket said:
Sure we do.

Black guy on street accused of petty crap. A gang of white officers kill him with one sneaking up behind him using an illegal choke hold on him which had been barred for decades. Thats a very complete picture.

New York state must be one really badass place when you can get the death penalty for selling loose cigarettes. :roll::doh

I am certain you will not mind if I simply ignore your foolish remarks.

whysoserious · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

lizzie said:
Yes it is, and I carefully explained to you that in the field, it rarely makes any difference, because you don't have access to drugs, defibs, pacers, oxygen, iv fluids, intubation trays, and the rest of the emergency management equipment that you need. And yes, laissez faire. It's a routine procedure to me. There's nothing mysterious about it, and if everything is perfect and available at the moment of death, you still have a small chance.

I showed you already that the statistics say it's better than you are making it out to be. And a small chance is always better than no chance. Here's a study on the survival rates of CPR performed in-hospital:

In-hospital cardiopulmonary resuscitation: a 30-year review. - PubMed - NCBI

Patients younger than 70 years of age had a success rate of 16.2 percent... 1.6 percent of successfully resuscitated patients had a permanent neurological impairment.

Those are the best conditions, of course, but the police are trained, and EMS was there shortly after, and I would imagine they have some equipment and drugs that could have proved helpful as well. Why would you ever not perform CPR though? That seems insane to me. As this article put it:

Code Blue: What Makes a Difference?

The goal of CPR is simple: The right patients need to be resuscitated and they need to be resuscitated right.

The chances of survival drop 7-10% for every minute CPR is not performed. There were 4 minutes before EMS arrived that police could have been doing that. Then, EMS did not perform CPR and strapped him onto a stretcher. I would think you'd be horrified by that. http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=5623

If you can show me that he had an infinitely small chance of surviving without brain damage, I might be able to see where you are coming from.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Juanita said:
He didn't have a heart attack when he was breaking up the fight! The cops caused his death. There is no question of that.

Perhaps they simply gave him that final helping hand.

joko104 · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
WE understand it is against their policy. And the one who used it will probably face discipline.

Can you do a bit more research and show that it is a crime?

It's a nonsensical question. It's like asking if it is a crime to hit or kick someone. Yes. No. Maybe. It depends on the situation.

whysoserious · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
From my training from some time ago I was going to say less than 4% survive under the best of circumstances. A four hundred pounder is not likely to survive a heart attack. Plus he might have carried some exotic disease. At least mouth to mouth is discouraged now.

Oh, in my one real event the man died. I think he was dead before I turned him over. There was no there, there, in his eyes. Fortunately EMT arrived before I started mouth to mouth. From the time I saw him drop to their arrival was less than a couple of minutes. He weighed at least half again more than me.

You can just do chest compressions until EMS arrives. I've shown that 4% is low, and one thing that drags that number down is that CPR is performed in cases where it wouldn't be helpful, but even if it was 1%, who gives a ****? Do it. Why wouldn't you?

1% is a lot better than no percent. All day I take 1% over no percent.

haymarket · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
I am certain you will not mind if I simply ignore your foolish remarks.

I love how people who pretend to believe in liberty and freedom voice opinions aligning them with the virtues of a police state.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
The problem people have with this is that manslaughter should have been considered.... and it wasn't.

How do you know what the grand jury considered? All we know is that they did what all grand juries do. they evaluated the prosecutors evidence and determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime.

Maybe we will have the opportunity to see the grand jury reviewed evidence.

joko104 · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
I do not believe so. It might have saved the life of a healthy, fit 20 year old. This guy carried two hundred pounds of fat. He was walking dead.

You are walking dead. Everyone is walking dead. Your message is pointless.

Hatuey · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
How do you know what the grand jury considered?

You still trying? I already called you on your bull**** misrepresentation on my post about Erod. Now I have to school you on the fine art of reading through a thread? Here's a clue. Keep reading the exchange between tres borrachos and I.

Misterveritis · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
Yes, but heart trauma also can cause this. A person with a weak heart can not pump the oxygen fast enough - thus the person can't catch their breathe. That is why if a person is having difficulty breathing goes to ER they will do an EKG - though seemingly the lungs and heart are not related to each other.

The heart of a 400 pound older guy under stress and attack likely is going to experience breathing difficulty- which is really a heart issue, the heart already aged and strained having to deal with 400 pounds. As the video shows, when the chock hold released the heart rate soars - poising danger of everything from heart attack to stroke (freeing a clot) to blood vessel in brain bursting. I suspect that under all those stresses and demands his heart threw in the towel.

Yep. Too big to fail and too fat to be arrested. What an awesome country. We are led by Marxists and have become a nation of sheep and fools.

We have our very own criminal class. We call them politicians.

dirtpoorchris · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
"Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air...

...If a person appears to be having difficulty breathing or is otherwise demonstrating life-threatening symptoms, medical assistance will be requested IMMEDIATELY." (NYPD Patrol Guide, 203-11, emphasis in original)

All you folks who stick up for the cops because they were arresting someone for doing something wrong....but you seem to conveniently forget that the cops were breaking their own rules.

Hypocrisy......

"Batman Syndrome" People dont want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

whysoserious · Dec 3, 2014

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Yep. Too big to fail and too fat to be arrested. What an awesome country. We are led by Marxists and have become a nation of sheep and fools.

We have our very own criminal class. We call them politicians.

Home of the free, unless you're fat. Then you're just walking dead.

joko104 · Dec 3, 2014

Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Peter Grimm said:
Dude, stop spreading misinformation. When a coroner rules something a homicide, it just means the person didn't die of natural causes. He didn't slip off a bridge, die in his sleep, or take too many pills.

A coroner's job is just to give a scientific opinion as to the cause of death. We can clearly see in the video that the altercation lead to his death. It's not the coroner's job to determine whether there was malice involved which would be necessary for an indictment.

That's the job of the grand jury.

The coroner ruling it a homicide is very relevant. It means the coroner ruled he didn't die of natural or health causes. It means he was killed by one or more other people. The question, then is 1.) is the coroner correct and if so 2.) was the killing an illegal act?

No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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