Sup! I take it you're familiar with TZM & TVP? I used to be on The Zeitgeist Movement forum until they disbanded the forum (they also created a new one later on, but that one wasn't as active and also eventually was disbanded).A a fellow futurist, I would like to say Hi.
Thanks!Welcome to the forum neil.
Those are not terms I am familiar with. I tend to more closely pay attention to AI, robotics, bionics, and genetics.Sup! I take it you're familiar with TZM & TVP? I used to be on The Zeitgeist Movement forum until they disbanded the forum (they also created a new one later on, but that one wasn't as active and also eventually was disbanded).
welcome to the siteHi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.
I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.
My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).
My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.
I am not religious.
Ah, ok; TZM is "The Zeitgeist Movement" & TVP is "The Venus Project." Both are generally interested in futurism with a bit of a focus on a "moneyless" (access to goods/services/resources without paying/trading for them) society.Those are not terms I am familiar with. I tend to more closely pay attention to AI, robotics, bionics, and genetics.
Ahh, I always think of that as "what if we were startrek" or post scarcity.Ah, ok; TZM is "The Zeitgeist Movement" & TVP is "The Venus Project." Both are generally interested in futurism with a bit of a focus on a "moneyless" (access to goods/services/resources without paying/trading for them) society.
Thanks!welcome to the site
spent a LOT of time in your neck of the woods
Woodbridge & Dale City for 15 years
Then Herndon for 10 years after spending a few years in Montgomery county
Glad to be done with the traffic and the hustle and bustle of the DC area
Welcome. Look forward to hearing some of your ideas about what humans will do when our current definition of "work" changes... I just learned of Calhoun's mouse utopia study. It it's true then I wonder how humanity would fare if our needs were met by technologyHi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.
I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.
My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).
My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.
I am not religious.
LOL - yes, the concept was directly touched on in at least one episode of Star Trek TNG that I'm aware of - the one with the cryonically frozen group of people & one of them was a wealthy business investor type of individual; Picard had to explain to him that those financially oriented concepts that concerned him were "now" obsolete.Ahh, I always think of that as "what if we were startrek" or post scarcity.
I would love if it happened, but I also fear human nature cannot handle it.
I am surprised you didn't label yourself a left-libertarian since those types here tend to be the ones who either tend to go for post-scarcity or worker owned business situations (its usually the two broad categories I see with that crowd).LOL - yes, the concept was directly touched on in at least one episode of Star Trek TNG that I'm aware of - the one with the cryonically frozen group of people & one of them was a wealthy business investor type of individual; Picard had to explain to him that those financially oriented concepts that concerned him were "now" obsolete.
One of the issues debated by some in the TZM/TVP branch of post scarcity proponents is the nature vs. nurture topic. For our present-day society, I think there certainly would be many who would be hesitant about accepting the idea, if the approach were to be to try to pitch the idea first (especially without the implementation of essential automation & robotics, and other technology) as opposed to showing it in action. In a certain way I think we are probably in the middle of this transition with the advent of the internet. The internet covers the information and telecommunication technological components of a post-scarcity society & the next step is to develop the mechanical tools and hardware that would range from being controlled by tele-operation to full automation/AI.
The way I see it, if we (meaning society as a whole, not the royal "we") eliminate the need for someone somewhere (in the "supply chains" of all goods and services) to exert labor (mainly manual work), and to be dependent on it to make ends meet - put a roof over their heads, food on their table, etc., this would render society's economic problems (crime, war, corruption, violence, etc.) practically obsolete; the premise is that these problems essentially stem from scarcity. The question is how to render society's dependency on manual labor as no longer necessary; we cannot do this, yet, but as automation & robotics technology, along with other advances in technology, are developed and improved, it seems to me that this can be achieved.
My personal position is that it would be a good idea to show it to society, once it's developed & becomes available, rather than trying to somehow market the concept with persuasive tactics; this is how computer technology, the internet, cell phones, and smart phones went "viral." I'm sure there's someone somewhere who refuses to use computers, the internet, and cell phones. I have no interest in trying to force or coerce them to do so, and it doesn't affect me that they refuse to use them; I'd say that's a win-win. LOL
Thank you & I haven't heard of this utopia study. It seems interesting, I'll check it out later (can't right now - gotta go in a moment); thank you for making me aware of it.Welcome. Look forward to hearing some of your ideas about what humans will do when our current definition of "work" changes... I just learned of Calhoun's mouse utopia study. It it's true then I wonder how humanity would fare if our needs were met by technology
Hi swing_voter.Hi Neil.
Yes, I understand this. The reason for this is because there's a difference between the before and after (the transition) versions of the economic "infrastructure." The way I see it is that it's a simple matter of using the right (economic) tool for the job.I am surprised you didn't label yourself a left-libertarian since those types here tend to be the ones who either tend to go for post-scarcity or worker owned business situations (its usually the two broad categories I see with that crowd).
Thanks!Hi neil, welcome!
So you are thinking of the Alaskan or Scandinavian model? Using control of natural resources to fund government or give out a dividend?Yes, I understand this. The reason for this is because there's a difference between the before and after (the transition) versions of the economic "infrastructure." The way I see it is that it's a simple matter of using the right (economic) tool for the job.
I consider and recognize a free market (as opposed to central planning, command and control) is what's best for society today; that means & includes the existence of the state, government, taxes, law enforcement agencies, legislative/executive/judicial branches of gov't, etc. - but, mainly limited to a "referee" role and not so much as a nanny.
I also support state ownership and/or control of the roadways (including sidewalks, bike paths, etc.), because I'm opposed to the dilemma that's introduced by having all real estate property being privately owned, which is that we can be rendered prisoners on our own property if all adjacent neighbors refuse passage for any reason, or impose cost prohibitive tolls to pass through them, and I see it as much more economically efficient to have the roadways centrally managed, coordinated, etc. Private competing companies could still be used by the government to build, maintain, and repair them.
One solution we can and ought to implement now is a UBI, but it has to be economically sound, meaning for example it would need to be dividend-based as opposed to some fixed/prescribed amount. I don't consider it to be wealth redistribution or anything like that; I consider it to be compensation in exchange for those who own property to have the right to refuse others access to it.
Anyways, once we eliminate the dependency on manual labor, the structure or "dynamics" of our economy becomes totally different, meaning we can move away from the contemporary trade/market tool to another tool.
Maybe, but probably not, because it doesn't seem consistent with my libertarian & free market principles/position. In practice they may seem to work ok where they're implemented, but one problem with this approach is the issue of availability of resources and population it would have to support. I don't know much about the Scandinavian model, but I do know that Alaska is the biggest state, has one of the smallest populations, and probably has the largest area to population ratios, meaning that basically they can get away with this model. I don't think everyone everywhere will be able to get away with this model. If they can get away with it and want to do that, then great!So you are thinking of the Alaskan or Scandinavian model? Using control of natural resources to fund government or give out a dividend?
If so, I would support that as it already has a proven track record.
Born and raised in DC, I watched the town transition from smallish southern town to an unrecognizable mess.welcome to the site
spent a LOT of time in your neck of the woods
Woodbridge & Dale City for 15 years
Then Herndon for 10 years after spending a few years in Montgomery county
Glad to be done with the traffic and the hustle and bustle of the DC area
How very interesting , a libertarian/centrist that is into TZM and TVP. Not exactly the avarage libertian on this Forum (or in the US, if I understand things correctly) I am looking forward to your posts and threads.Sup! I take it you're familiar with TZM & TVP? I used to be on The Zeitgeist Movement forum until they disbanded the forum (they also created a new one later on, but that one wasn't as active and also eventually was disbanded).
I'm originally from the Norfolk area, but I lived in Stafford from 2014-18, after I retired from the Army. Glad to be out of that area, honestly.Hi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.
I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.
My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).
My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.
I am not religious.
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