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Neil from Northern Virginia here

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neil

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Hi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.

I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.

My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).

My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.

I am not religious.
 
A a fellow futurist, I would like to say Hi.
 
tacomancer said:
A a fellow futurist, I would like to say Hi.
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Sup! I take it you're familiar with TZM & TVP? I used to be on The Zeitgeist Movement forum until they disbanded the forum (they also created a new one later on, but that one wasn't as active and also eventually was disbanded).
 
Welcome to the forum neil.
 
neil said:
Sup! I take it you're familiar with TZM & TVP? I used to be on The Zeitgeist Movement forum until they disbanded the forum (they also created a new one later on, but that one wasn't as active and also eventually was disbanded).
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Those are not terms I am familiar with. I tend to more closely pay attention to AI, robotics, bionics, and genetics.

My interest is what it will take to have humanity go on forever, at least when I look at these topics from a nonreligious lens.
 
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neil said:
Hi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.

I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.

My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).

My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.

I am not religious.
Click to expand...
welcome to the site

spent a LOT of time in your neck of the woods

Woodbridge & Dale City for 15 years
Then Herndon for 10 years after spending a few years in Montgomery county

Glad to be done with the traffic and the hustle and bustle of the DC area
 
tacomancer said:
Those are not terms I am familiar with. I tend to more closely pay attention to AI, robotics, bionics, and genetics.
Click to expand...
Ah, ok; TZM is "The Zeitgeist Movement" & TVP is "The Venus Project." Both are generally interested in futurism with a bit of a focus on a "moneyless" (access to goods/services/resources without paying/trading for them) society.
 
neil said:
Ah, ok; TZM is "The Zeitgeist Movement" & TVP is "The Venus Project." Both are generally interested in futurism with a bit of a focus on a "moneyless" (access to goods/services/resources without paying/trading for them) society.
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Ahh, I always think of that as "what if we were startrek" or post scarcity.

I would love if it happened, but I also fear human nature cannot handle it.
 
gdgyva said:
welcome to the site

spent a LOT of time in your neck of the woods

Woodbridge & Dale City for 15 years
Then Herndon for 10 years after spending a few years in Montgomery county

Glad to be done with the traffic and the hustle and bustle of the DC area
Click to expand...
Thanks!

I'm in the Woodbridge area. Depending on when you were last there, you may see so much change if you were to return (if you've been gone for more than 20 years or so) that you probably wouldn't even recognize it. Traffic is terrible mainly during rush hours and getting worse.
 
neil said:
Hi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.

I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.

My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).

My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.

I am not religious.
Click to expand...
Welcome. Look forward to hearing some of your ideas about what humans will do when our current definition of "work" changes... I just learned of Calhoun's mouse utopia study. It it's true then I wonder how humanity would fare if our needs were met by technology
 
tacomancer said:
Ahh, I always think of that as "what if we were startrek" or post scarcity.

I would love if it happened, but I also fear human nature cannot handle it.
Click to expand...
LOL - yes, the concept was directly touched on in at least one episode of Star Trek TNG that I'm aware of - the one with the cryonically frozen group of people & one of them was a wealthy business investor type of individual; Picard had to explain to him that those financially oriented concepts that concerned him were "now" obsolete.

One of the issues debated by some in the TZM/TVP branch of post scarcity proponents is the nature vs. nurture topic. For our present-day society, I think there certainly would be many who would be hesitant about accepting the idea, if the approach were to be to try to pitch the idea first (especially without the implementation of essential automation & robotics, and other technology) as opposed to showing it in action. In a certain way I think we are probably in the middle of this transition with the advent of the internet. The internet covers the information and telecommunication technological components of a post-scarcity society & the next step is to develop the mechanical tools and hardware that would range from being controlled by tele-operation to full automation/AI.

The way I see it, if we (meaning society as a whole, not the royal "we") eliminate the need for someone somewhere (in the "supply chains" of all goods and services) to exert labor (mainly manual work), and to be dependent on it to make ends meet - put a roof over their heads, food on their table, etc., this would render society's economic problems (crime, war, corruption, violence, etc.) practically obsolete; the premise is that these problems essentially stem from scarcity. The question is how to render society's dependency on manual labor as no longer necessary; we cannot do this, yet, but as automation & robotics technology, along with other advances in technology, are developed and improved, it seems to me that this can be achieved.

My personal position is that it would be a good idea to show it to society, once it's developed & becomes available, rather than trying to somehow market the concept with persuasive tactics; this is how computer technology, the internet, cell phones, and smart phones went "viral." I'm sure there's someone somewhere who refuses to use computers, the internet, and cell phones. I have no interest in trying to force or coerce them to do so, and it doesn't affect me that they refuse to use them; I'd say that's a win-win. LOL
 
neil said:
LOL - yes, the concept was directly touched on in at least one episode of Star Trek TNG that I'm aware of - the one with the cryonically frozen group of people & one of them was a wealthy business investor type of individual; Picard had to explain to him that those financially oriented concepts that concerned him were "now" obsolete.

One of the issues debated by some in the TZM/TVP branch of post scarcity proponents is the nature vs. nurture topic. For our present-day society, I think there certainly would be many who would be hesitant about accepting the idea, if the approach were to be to try to pitch the idea first (especially without the implementation of essential automation & robotics, and other technology) as opposed to showing it in action. In a certain way I think we are probably in the middle of this transition with the advent of the internet. The internet covers the information and telecommunication technological components of a post-scarcity society & the next step is to develop the mechanical tools and hardware that would range from being controlled by tele-operation to full automation/AI.

The way I see it, if we (meaning society as a whole, not the royal "we") eliminate the need for someone somewhere (in the "supply chains" of all goods and services) to exert labor (mainly manual work), and to be dependent on it to make ends meet - put a roof over their heads, food on their table, etc., this would render society's economic problems (crime, war, corruption, violence, etc.) practically obsolete; the premise is that these problems essentially stem from scarcity. The question is how to render society's dependency on manual labor as no longer necessary; we cannot do this, yet, but as automation & robotics technology, along with other advances in technology, are developed and improved, it seems to me that this can be achieved.

My personal position is that it would be a good idea to show it to society, once it's developed & becomes available, rather than trying to somehow market the concept with persuasive tactics; this is how computer technology, the internet, cell phones, and smart phones went "viral." I'm sure there's someone somewhere who refuses to use computers, the internet, and cell phones. I have no interest in trying to force or coerce them to do so, and it doesn't affect me that they refuse to use them; I'd say that's a win-win. LOL
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I am surprised you didn't label yourself a left-libertarian since those types here tend to be the ones who either tend to go for post-scarcity or worker owned business situations (its usually the two broad categories I see with that crowd).
 
leftofcenter said:
Welcome. Look forward to hearing some of your ideas about what humans will do when our current definition of "work" changes... I just learned of Calhoun's mouse utopia study. It it's true then I wonder how humanity would fare if our needs were met by technology
Click to expand...
Thank you & I haven't heard of this utopia study. It seems interesting, I'll check it out later (can't right now - gotta go in a moment); thank you for making me aware of it.
 
Hi neil, welcome!
 
tacomancer said:
I am surprised you didn't label yourself a left-libertarian since those types here tend to be the ones who either tend to go for post-scarcity or worker owned business situations (its usually the two broad categories I see with that crowd).
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand this. The reason for this is because there's a difference between the before and after (the transition) versions of the economic "infrastructure." The way I see it is that it's a simple matter of using the right (economic) tool for the job.

I consider and recognize a free market (as opposed to central planning, command and control) is what's best for society today; that means & includes the existence of the state, government, taxes, law enforcement agencies, legislative/executive/judicial branches of gov't, etc. - but, mainly limited to a "referee" role and not so much as a nanny.

I also support state ownership and/or control of the roadways (including sidewalks, bike paths, etc.), because I'm opposed to the dilemma that's introduced by having all real estate property being privately owned, which is that we can be rendered prisoners on our own property if all adjacent neighbors refuse passage for any reason, or impose cost prohibitive tolls to pass through them, and I see it as much more economically efficient to have the roadways centrally managed, coordinated, etc. Private competing companies could still be used by the government to build, maintain, and repair them.

One solution we can and ought to implement now is a UBI, but it has to be economically sound, meaning for example it would need to be dividend-based as opposed to some fixed/prescribed amount. I don't consider it to be wealth redistribution or anything like that; I consider it to be compensation in exchange for those who own property to have the right to refuse others access to it.

Anyways, once we eliminate the dependency on manual labor, the structure or "dynamics" of our economy becomes totally different, meaning we can move away from the contemporary trade/market tool to another tool.
 
neil said:
Yes, I understand this. The reason for this is because there's a difference between the before and after (the transition) versions of the economic "infrastructure." The way I see it is that it's a simple matter of using the right (economic) tool for the job.

I consider and recognize a free market (as opposed to central planning, command and control) is what's best for society today; that means & includes the existence of the state, government, taxes, law enforcement agencies, legislative/executive/judicial branches of gov't, etc. - but, mainly limited to a "referee" role and not so much as a nanny.

I also support state ownership and/or control of the roadways (including sidewalks, bike paths, etc.), because I'm opposed to the dilemma that's introduced by having all real estate property being privately owned, which is that we can be rendered prisoners on our own property if all adjacent neighbors refuse passage for any reason, or impose cost prohibitive tolls to pass through them, and I see it as much more economically efficient to have the roadways centrally managed, coordinated, etc. Private competing companies could still be used by the government to build, maintain, and repair them.

One solution we can and ought to implement now is a UBI, but it has to be economically sound, meaning for example it would need to be dividend-based as opposed to some fixed/prescribed amount. I don't consider it to be wealth redistribution or anything like that; I consider it to be compensation in exchange for those who own property to have the right to refuse others access to it.

Anyways, once we eliminate the dependency on manual labor, the structure or "dynamics" of our economy becomes totally different, meaning we can move away from the contemporary trade/market tool to another tool.
Click to expand...
So you are thinking of the Alaskan or Scandinavian model? Using control of natural resources to fund government or give out a dividend?

If so, I would support that as it already has a proven track record.
 
tacomancer said:
So you are thinking of the Alaskan or Scandinavian model? Using control of natural resources to fund government or give out a dividend?

If so, I would support that as it already has a proven track record.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but probably not, because it doesn't seem consistent with my libertarian & free market principles/position. In practice they may seem to work ok where they're implemented, but one problem with this approach is the issue of availability of resources and population it would have to support. I don't know much about the Scandinavian model, but I do know that Alaska is the biggest state, has one of the smallest populations, and probably has the largest area to population ratios, meaning that basically they can get away with this model. I don't think everyone everywhere will be able to get away with this model. If they can get away with it and want to do that, then great!

My thinking is the funding would come from taxation. Andrew Yang called his UBI plan the "freedom dividend" (something like that), but it wasn't actually based on dividends, at least in the same way as a corporation's stock dividends. The idea is that this dividend would always be derived from a percentage of taxes. Let's say a flat tax, and let's say it's only from capital gains (and businesses were not exempt); let's say that half of the revenue from capital gains went to this dividend-based UBI. If capital gains tax revenues are a billion dollars for a quarter, then $500 million would be evenly divided among recipients. If the next quarter the capital gains tax revenues go down to $800 million, then $400 million gets evenly divided among recipients.

I think this could greatly cut taxes down to a small fraction of what they are now; consider that we have very large overhead that we currently fund taxes with for law enforcement, prisons, courts, social programs, welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, generally dealing with poverty & homelessness, and much of this could be trimmed back by streamlining them, and we streamline them by simply introducing the "universal" (or "unconditional") component - the "U" in UBI into the system. This would essentially be far more economically efficient than the way we deal with things today.
 
gdgyva said:
welcome to the site

spent a LOT of time in your neck of the woods

Woodbridge & Dale City for 15 years
Then Herndon for 10 years after spending a few years in Montgomery county

Glad to be done with the traffic and the hustle and bustle of the DC area
Click to expand...
Born and raised in DC, I watched the town transition from smallish southern town to an unrecognizable mess.

Only been to the Atlanta area a few times, not what I would call a backwater…..
 
neil said:
Sup! I take it you're familiar with TZM & TVP? I used to be on The Zeitgeist Movement forum until they disbanded the forum (they also created a new one later on, but that one wasn't as active and also eventually was disbanded).
Click to expand...
How very interesting , a libertarian/centrist that is into TZM and TVP. Not exactly the avarage libertian on this Forum (or in the US, if I understand things correctly) I am looking forward to your posts and threads.
 
neil said:
Hi everyone, I live in the Northern Virginia area.

I work in the IT field in the healthcare industry, and have degrees in computer science and electrical engineering.

My interests include cryptocurrencies, the concept of a post-scarcity society (transitioning via implementation of technology - automation & robotics), and UBI (actually being dividend based).

My political positions are generally libertarian (centrist, for those who self-identify as libertarians). I'm not a fan of the Leftist/socialist ideology (hence my avatar), and I consider anarcho-capitalism to be an oxymoron.

I am not religious.
Click to expand...
I'm originally from the Norfolk area, but I lived in Stafford from 2014-18, after I retired from the Army. Glad to be out of that area, honestly.
 
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