National Guard Troops Get Stuck Away from their Jobs for Trump Political Assignments..

The Generalisimo Trump might have to find out the hard way the National Guard of each state is not an occupation force to place indefinitely in blue cities throughout the country.

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National Guard Soldiers are NOT Full time Enlistments….

Some are weekenders…

Some are for a few weeks….

They sign up with the understanding that absent a war,, or national emergency ?

They do their tours of duty and go BACK to their work or their lives….

NOT Now…..

The number of Americans missing work for National Guard deployments or other military or civic duty is at a 19-year high, adding disruption to a labor market that’s already under strain. Between January and August, workers reported 90,000 instances of people missing at least a week of work because of military deployments, jury duty or other civil service, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That is more than double the number of similar absences in the same eight-month period last year, and the highest level since 2006, when President George W. Bush deployed the National Guard to Iraq, Afghanistan and the Southwest U.S. border in large numbers.


The absences are due at least in part to a growing military presence in American cities. Since taking office in January, President Donald Trump has sent thousands of National Guard service members — civilians, many with full-time jobs — to Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. He has suggested expansions of those efforts to at least seven more cities, including Chicago, New York, Baltimore and New Orleans, and called for the creation of a new military unit that can quickly mobilize anywhere in the country. “Uncertainty over whether you or your employees might be called to National Guard duty and how long that deployment might last is just adding to the chaos” for families and businesses, said Michael Makowsky, an economist at Clemson University whose work focuses on law enforcement. “Anything that makes it harder to make a plan is generally bad for the economy.” The White House says its efforts are improving the U.S. economy by combating crime and unrest in major cities.

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The 2-star Army MajGen ret. Randy Manor is former Vice Chief of the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagon where a 4-star General of either Army or Air Force is the chief of all the US NG. The chief of the NG Bureau is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

MJG Manor discusses the NG deployment to DC and provides a multiplicity of facts, factors, reasons the NG has no place being deployed to blue cities as the Generalissimo is trying to do, fortunately with limited success and dubious prospects. MajGen Manor who is a straightforward Soldier of 40 years is a crisp speaker and a guy who knows his stuff...

Tangmo said:

The Generalisimo Trump might have to find out the hard way the National Guard of each state is not an occupation force to place indefinitely in blue cities throughout the country.

National Guard Troop’s Get Stuck Away from their Jobs for Trump Political Assignments..

….there’s this unfunded requirement for our civilian employers to shoulder that burden.”…

politicaldog101.com

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National Guard Soldiers are NOT Full time Enlistments….

Some are weekenders…

Some are for a few weeks….

Click to expand...

And some are for months or up to a year.

That's part of the job.

Tangmo said:

They sign up with the understanding that absent a war,, or national emergency ?


They do their tours of duty and go BACK to their work or their lives….

NOT Now…..

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Really?

Are you saying that now they aren't going back to their work or their lives after their tours of duty? I'd like to see your data that supports that claim.

Tangmo said:

The number of Americans missing work for National Guard deployments or other military or civic duty is at a 19-year high, adding disruption to a labor market that’s already under strain. Between January and August, workers reported 90,000 instances of people missing at least a week of work because of military deployments, jury duty or other civil service, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. That is more than double the number of similar absences in the same eight-month period last year, and the highest level since 2006, when President George W. Bush deployed the National Guard to Iraq, Afghanistan and the Southwest U.S. border in large numbers.

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What is the number of Americans missing work for National Guard deployments? Adding in "other military or civic duty" could skew the numbers a lot.

Tangmo said:

The absences are due at least in part to a growing military presence in American cities. Since taking office in January, President Donald Trump has sent thousands of National Guard service members — civilians, many with full-time jobs — to Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. He has suggested expansions of those efforts to at least seven more cities, including Chicago, New York, Baltimore and New Orleans, and called for the creation of a new military unit that can quickly mobilize anywhere in the country. “Uncertainty over whether you or your employees might be called to National Guard duty and how long that deployment might last is just adding to the chaos” for families and businesses, said Michael Makowsky, an economist at Clemson University whose work focuses on law enforcement. “Anything that makes it harder to make a plan is generally bad for the economy.” The White House says its efforts are improving the U.S. economy by combating crime and unrest in major cities.

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The 2-star Army MajGen ret. Randy Manor is former Vice Chief of the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagon where a 4-star General of either Army or Air Force is the chief of all the US NG. The chief of the NG Bureau is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

MJG Manor discusses the NG deployment to DC and provides a multiplicity of facts, factors, reasons the NG has no place being deployed to blue cities as the Generalissimo is trying to do, fortunately with limited success and dubious prospects. MajGen Manor who is a straightforward Soldier of 40 years is a crisp speaker and a guy who knows his stuff...

Click to expand...

Gen. Manor...retired...is welcome to his opinion ("Is it appropriate? No.") but he is clear on the facts ("Is it legal? Yes.").

And bottom line is, Gen. Manor...before he retired...would have complied with the President's orders because he knows that the President is the Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces and it's the President's orders that count...not the opinion of his subordinates.

These deployments for political theater are an abuse of the military by the Commander in Chief and I bet the soldiers know that.

Mycroft said:

And some are for months or up to a year.

That's part of the job.

Are you saying that now they aren't going back to their work or their lives after their tours of duty? I'd like to see your data that supports that claim.

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The armed forces hate deployments to cities on the basis of "civil disorder." Your MAGA post misses or ignores this problem in the Generalissimo's political deployments. Neither does the military accept becoming an occupation force in American cities which you also miss entirely and completely. The rank and file troops -- and up and down the chain of command -- reject these domestic deployments and they believe very strongly against 'em. And the US armed forces know Your Generalissimo has no limits and no guardrails -- which means it's up to them to make these points.


In Los Angeles and after four weeks the battalion of 700 active duty Marine Infantry HAD to be rotated out and another battalion of 700 Marines from their infantry regiment rotated in. The active duty Marines hated the deployment against civilians. Indeed, all either battalion did was stand around the federal building watching civilian traffic drive past or walk by. This irregular discipline is not sustainable and troop commanders know this and share this military common sense reaction.


Your Generalissimo Trump with Hegseth The Horrible deployed nearly 4000 Army NG to stand around and watch your Icestapo agents make a hash of MacArthur Park and do a FUBAR at the marijuana farm. Again and after 4 weeks 2000 bored and mutinous Army NG troops were pulled out and by August 1st virtually all the remaining state NG were pulled out.

No active duty troops were deployed to DC and no active duty troops will be deployed to any blue city because all the troops of the armed forces know it is political and it is extraordinary, concocted, personal and indefinite, rather than official. Trump has politicized the armed forces into the vast majority being against him on these domestic deployments against civilians that are out of acceptable bounds. The Generalissimo's years long campaign to politicize the armed forces has backfired into their opposing him instead of capitulating to him.

Tangmo said:

The armed forces hate deployments to cities on the basis of "civil disorder."

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That is a pretty broad statement. I'm sure you have some data to support your statement.

I'll wait patiently for you to provide it.

Mycroft said:

That is a pretty broad statement. I'm sure you have some data to support your statement.

I'll wait patiently for you to provide it.

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Have you served? If so, who with.

gman said:

Have you served? If so, who with.

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Why is this question relevant?

In any case, yes. US Army.

Mycroft said:

Why is this question relevant?

In any case, yes. US Army.

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Its relevance is because if you had also served in the NG you would’ve known that civil disturbance training is the least popular training for very obvious reasons. No one wants to be pitted American against American except for maybe a few knuckleheads. The training is mandatory for all state NG’s. I’ve served both active duty and NG and the impact is detrimental to the guardsman home life, work life balance as well may impact their social life .

Mycroft said:

Gen. Manor...retired...is welcome to his opinion ("Is it appropriate? No.") but he is clear on the facts ("Is it legal? Yes.").

And bottom line is, Gen. Manor...before he retired...would have complied with the President's orders because he knows that the President is the Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces and it's the President's orders that count...not the opinion of his subordinates.

Click to expand...

Your posts are oblivious to the vital factor that the Joint Chiefs and their chairman Gen. Dan "Razin" Caine of the Air Force can and do preclude Trump from giving orders that are "lawful but awful." They prevent Trump from issuing his presumed orders by convincing him it's a bad idea for him.

No active duty forces are deployed to DC because the Joint Chiefs led by Gen. Caine, with the Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Smith, made Trump recognize that any further use of active duty troops against civilians in cities would not go well for him. In fact, its recurrence might be refused.

So Trump talking about NG troops to Chicago is absent any mention of deploying any active duty troops to the city. Indeed, Trump won't be deploying any active duty armed forces to blue cities again. In fact and as of this post, Trump still has not committed NG troops to Chicago.

A good way for the military to preclude disobeying an order that is "lawful but awful" is to make clear the consequences of any such order being issued. A consequence being it is refused or ignored. Your rigid posts miss this vital factor entirely. Your overly formalistic posts that are obsessed about orders miss the background of people interacting to achieve their goals behind closed doors. Your hidebound posts don't know how these things work or don't work. Your posts are straight line tunnel vision about orders. They miss interpersonal interaction.

gman said:

Its relevance is because if you had also served in the NG you would’ve known that civil disturbance training is the least popular training for very obvious reasons. No one wants to be pitted American against American except for maybe a few knuckleheads. The training is mandatory for all state NG’s. I’ve served both active duty and NG and the impact is detrimental to the guardsman home life, work life balance as well may impact their social life .

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Okay.

Perhaps you can help out that other forum member by supplying data to support his broad brush statement.

Tangmo said:

Your posts are oblivious to the vital factor that the Joint Chiefs and their chairman Gen. Dan "Razin" Caine of the Air Force can and do preclude Trump from giving orders that are "lawful but awful."

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Bottom line: If the Commander in Chief gives them a lawful order, they will comply.

Tangmo said:

They prevent Trump from issuing his presumed orders by convincing him it's a bad idea for him.

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Sure. That is their job. But that doesn't negate the bottom line.

Tangmo said:

No active duty forces are deployed to DC because the Joint Chiefs led by Gen. Caine, with the Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Smith, made Trump recognize that any further use of active duty troops against civilians in cities would not go well for him. In fact, its recurrence might be refused.

So Trump talking about NG troops to Chicago is absent any mention of deploying any active duty troops to the city. Indeed, Trump won't be deploying any active duty armed forces to blue cities again. In fact and as of this post, Trump still has not committed NG troops to Chicago.

Click to expand...

The issue of active duty forces is irrelevant to this thread topic.

Tangmo said:

A good way for the military to preclude disobeying an order that is "lawful but awful" is to make clear the consequences of any such order being issued. A consequence being it is refused or ignored.

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As I said...it's the job of the JCS to advise the President. But the bottom line still applies. Those Generals WILL NOT refuse or ignore an order without suffering consequences.

Tangmo said:

Your rigid posts miss this vital factor entirely. Your overly formalistic posts that are obsessed about orders miss the background of people interacting to achieve their goals behind closed doors. Your hidebound posts don't know how these things work or don't work. Your posts are straight line tunnel vision about orders. They miss interpersonal interaction.

Click to expand...

shrug...

Regardless your opinion of my comments, the facts...and the law...remains in effect.

There's the legend of the Lieutenant in the Army of Frederick The Great being dressed down by a Major after its having to withdraw from the field of battle.

"The emperor gave you a commission because he thought you knew when to disobey an order."

People obsessed about orders and the commander in chief myths need to take notice. They need to be introduced to personal interactions that occur behind closed doors that can preclude risks to the commander who would issue an order that is 'lawful but awful" and the possible consequences of his commanders exercising their skills and wits to preclude its being issued.

Even those of us who have never been in the military can see that this stuff is bound to harm recruitment efforts. I mean, if somebody wanted to join the National Guard before, people would be talking about natural disasters and looters. Now I think the conversation is going to be whether they want to go to Washington DC and spend their days tearing down homeless people's tents and whether they throw their ID cards away on purpose.

Trump at the George Floyd Lafayette Square demonstration in June 2020, across the street from the WH, wanted the NG to shoot peaceful demonstrators who had nothing to do with the brief flaring of violence by rioters who ran off afterward.

The then SecDef Mark Esper the West Point grad and the chairman of JCS Gen. Milley on the scene said NO and NO.

At which point the exasperated Trump wailed, "Can't you just shoot them in the legs or something?!" Indeed, Trump is the Blood Lusting Generalissimo commander in chief who is obsessively and compulsively driven to make the USA armed forces his own personal oath taking gang of loyal goons. This is not the case and it will not happen.

Trump keeps pushing this issuing orders business at his own risk to his presidency and its cabinet remaining in power. Trump's orders to Esper and Milley right there on the scene were outright rejected immediately and emphatically. Trump's illegal and immoral order to shoot unarmed civilian peaceful demonstrators was DOA.

Tangmo said:

The then SecDef Mark Esper the West Point grad and the chairman of JCS Gen. Milley on the scene said NO and NO.

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I hope you're right. But Trump keeps replacing the military leadership with his own people. Just the other day they replaced someone in charge of a littoral combat ship - I have no idea why, for all I know there was good reason, but at this rate it seems like it's going to be a brand new set of decision makers.

bythoughts said:

I hope you're right. But Trump keeps replacing the military leadership with his own people. Just the other day they replaced someone in charge of a littoral combat ship - I have no idea why, for all I know there was good reason, but at this rate it seems like it's going to be a brand new set of decision makers.

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It's far from that.

It's generals who make and promote generals, and it's admirals who make and promote admirals. No one else on earth is qualified.

Whoever is the temporary SecDef and whoever is the temporary Potus/C'nC just sign off on these appointments and smile when it comes to promotions of and by the highest ranking officers who have 30+ career years. The pipeline of generals and officers has only more of the same as Trump has inherited. It's cut and paste on this.

Trump-Hegseth the Horrible have cherry picked high ranking officers of the armed services based on DEI, abortion, trans and other MAGA issues that are already cooked in the society as a whole. The mass of generals and admirals and their successors remain intact.

Hegseth dismisses a top officer and he gets the same from the existing and long pipeline of next up in line and in the order of advancement. Replacing the commander of a puny and dubious LCS is hardly overturning the armed forces chain of command into becoming MAGAs. That's not happening nor is it feasible or even possible.

"Hope" is btw a vice rather than a virtue. In fact liberals are overly active in their critical thinking when it comes to the armed forces. They have a lot of fearful imaginings based in, well, uneasy imaginings.

Mycroft said:

Okay.
Perhaps you can help out that other forum member by supplying data to support his broad brush statement.

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Which other forum member? If it’s @Tangmo you’re talking about, he’s expressed himself very clearly. You are the one with the problem because of your lack of experiencial knowledge on the subject.

gman said:

Which other forum member? If it’s @Tangmo you’re talking about, he’s expressed himself very clearly.

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Oh, that member HAS clearly expressed himself. However, he has NOT provided any data to back up his broad contention.

gman said:

You are the one with the problem because of your lack of experiencial knowledge on the subject.

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Perhaps you can tell me where my statements are incorrect.

Mycroft said:

Oh, that member HAS clearly expressed himself. However, he has NOT provided any data to back up his broad contention.


Perhaps you can tell me where my statements are incorrect.

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I’m not going to repeat what @Tangmo has retold you. If you can’t accept that then move on.

gman said:

I’m not going to repeat what @Tangmo has retold you. If you can’t accept that then move on.

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You don't have to repeat what he's said. I've already read it. But, if you have access to it, you COULD provide the data that he doesn't provide.

And this has nothing to do with what I'll "accept". I haven't yet seen any data to accept or refute.

Mycroft said:

You don't have to repeat what he's said. I've already read it. But, if you have access to it, you COULD provide the data that he doesn't provide.

And this has nothing to do with what I'll "accept". I haven't yet seen any data to accept or refute.

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What makes you qualified to determine the veracity of any data? In essence what you’re saying is that you don’t believe either one of us or you’re just being a dickhead trying to be cute.

gman said:

What makes you qualified to determine the veracity of any data? In essence what you’re saying is that you don’t believe either one of us or you’re just being a dickhead trying to be cute.

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Oh, Jeez...now you are getting disgusting and abusive.

Bye.

(consider yourself lucky)

Callen said:

These deployments for political theater are an abuse of the military by the Commander in Chief and I bet the soldiers know that.

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Not only do they know that...they are telling anyone that listens.

"Even the men and women of the National Guard seemed flummoxed, at times, over what exactly they were supposed to be doing in the nation’s capital.
“We’re the president’s patrol, ma’am,” one trio from South Carolina told us when we spotted them along the waterfront and asked what they were up to.
“Just walkin’ around,” replied another gaggle—also strolling along the Potomac.
“Smiling and waving,” a third group, up from West Virginia and stationed along the National Mall, told us.