teamosil
DP Veteran
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- Oct 17, 2009
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Ok... here's where we differ :
If you're willing to accept that he would have said 'I don't want to address border security until we have a comprehensive plan' WHEN he was there asking for help on the issue... at the very least is a deriliction of duty.
He wasn't asking for beaurocrats to sit on the issue for 6 months while cops as well as citizens are being killed. He wanted ACTION. But in order to have Obama take action, you needed to have the paperwork filled out 6 months before the election.
Frankly, this situation really is one where it would be legal to call a vote towards a declaration of war. Do YOU, even if you are hispanic, want illegal immigrants coming into the country and further driving down wages??
Deriliction of duty, war, citizens being killed... These are all extremely overly dramatic ways of thinking about any of this...
Obama is doing the same thing every president has done about illegal immigration for decades. We're spending $36 billion on preventing it. And, the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been going DOWN for 3 years in a row... The problem is less severe than it was 3 years ago.
It isn't like there is some big new crisis and Obama is refusing to act. What happened here is that some politicians and pundits on the right decided, more or less out of the blue, that they want the situation escalated and Obama is saying that first we need to have a decent plan rather than just reacting wildly to the somewhat hysterical demands of the right wing. He is absolutely right. Just ramping up enforcement to historically unprecedented levels to address a problem that has been shrinking for years without having any kind of plan in place to actually resolve the root issues is just a waste of money and would very possibly mean civil rights abuses.
Personally, I would consider throwing caution to the wind and leaping in with a poorly thought out plan just because some pundits decided they want you to a deriliction of duty.
His job is to protect the constitutional rights of the people living here, to be plan things properly so we aren't just flushing tax money down the toilet. Seems to me that is what he is doing.
Deriliction of duty, war, citizens being killed... These are all extremely overly dramatic ways of thinking about any of this... Obama is doing the same thing every president has done about illegal immigration for decades. We're spending $36 billion on preventing it. And, the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been going DOWN for 3 years in a row... The problem is less severe than it was 3 years ago. It isn't like there is some big new crisis and Obama is refusing to act. What happened here is that some politicians and pundits on the right decided, more or less out of the blue, that they want the situation escalated and Obama is saying that first we need to have a decent plan rather than just reacting wildly to the somewhat hysterical demands of the right wing. He is absolutely right. Just ramping up enforcement to historically unprecedented levels to address a problem that has been shrinking for years without having any kind of plan in place to actually resolve the root issues is just a waste of money and would very possibly mean civil rights abuses. Personally, I would consider throwing caution to the wind and leaping in with a poorly thought out plan just because some pundits decided they want you to a deriliction of duty. His job is to protect the constitutional rights of the people living here, to be plan things properly so we aren't just flushing tax money down the toilet. Seems to me that is what he is doing.
Umm.. they aren't putting signs up telling AMERICANS to NOT got into national parks because THERE ARE DRUG SMUGGLING ILLEGAL ALIENS THAT MIGHT KILL THEM. To not respond in kind, when Obama has given an OATH to follow and protect the constitution... it's one of the FEW DUTIES that's ACTUALLY part of his oath.
The numbers of illegals have gone down, as we have discussed in another thread, however, that does not mean that the problem is less severe than it was. In fact, the drug cartel violence and the illegals working for the cartels is an increasing problem, not a decreasing one. Three years ago you rarley heard about an illegal moving dope for the cartels, now it is increasingly common place. Some of the recently migrated illegals I know have said that they have carried drugs as a way to pay for thier passage.
This is just another example of why the border needs to be secured. The violence that the cartels generate in Mexico is starting to come into this country. Obama and others should pay attention to what is happening now, not compare to what was 3 or 5 or 20 years ago.
Deriliction of duty, war, citizens being killed... These are all extremely overly dramatic ways of thinking about any of this... Obama is doing the same thing every president has done about illegal immigration for decades. We're spending $36 billion on preventing it. And, the number of illegal immigrants in the US has been going DOWN for 3 years in a row... The problem is less severe than it was 3 years ago. It isn't like there is some big new crisis and Obama is refusing to act. What happened here is that some politicians and pundits on the right decided, more or less out of the blue, that they want the situation escalated and Obama is saying that first we need to have a decent plan rather than just reacting wildly to the somewhat hysterical demands of the right wing. He is absolutely right. Just ramping up enforcement to historically unprecedented levels to address a problem that has been shrinking for years without having any kind of plan in place to actually resolve the root issues is just a waste of money and would very possibly mean civil rights abuses. Personally, I would consider throwing caution to the wind and leaping in with a poorly thought out plan just because some pundits decided they want you to a deriliction of duty. His job is to protect the constitutional rights of the people living here, to be plan things properly so we aren't just flushing tax money down the toilet. Seems to me that is what he is doing.
I do agree that the drug cartel violence is a significant problem and we do need to address that firmly. But, that's a different problem than illegal immigration. Trying to solve drug trafficking by tackling illegal immigration is kind of like trying to solve a city's drinking water needs by trying to remove all the salt from the ocean...
The numbers of illegals have gone down, as we have discussed in another thread, however, that does not mean that the problem is less severe than it was. In fact, the drug cartel violence and the illegals working for the cartels is an increasing problem, not a decreasing one. Three years ago you rarley heard about an illegal moving dope for the cartels, now it is increasingly common place. Some of the recently migrated illegals I know have said that they have carried drugs as a way to pay for thier passage.
This is just another example of why the border needs to be secured. The violence that the cartels generate in Mexico is starting to come into this country. Obama and others should pay attention to what is happening now, not compare to what was 3 or 5 or 20 years ago.
You must have missed what I said in my first post, The illegals are running drugs now, the two are related.
Right, that is what I responded to. Some of the people involved in the drug trade are indeed illegal immigrants, but there are 10 million illegal immigrants and maybe 10 thousand of them involved in traficking drugs. It just makes more sense to target the 10,000 than to target 10 million people in hopes of getting to 10,000.
Your math is wrong 1sqmi is 640acres, so in the one refuge about 5.4 sq miles are closed.
I guess you get your news from the left wing media. I say this because you seem to quote right wing media as being non objective.
It is clear you lean to the pro illegal side.
That's what I'm saying... IMMEDIATELY and HARSHLY deal with the 10000...
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