My vote is absolutely worthless

[Verax]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

 

[Mach]

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

How much effort beyond voting have you spent trying to seriously reform the failed system? I suspect most people spend next to zero.

We grow up thinking we have a working system, founding fathers figured it out, etc. That's just not the reality is it?

 

[Verax]

How much effort beyond voting have you spent trying to seriously reform the failed system? I suspect most people spend next to zero.

We grow up thinking we have a working system, founding fathers figured it out, etc. That's just not the reality is it?

I'm the webmaster of a few political sites and moderate another politics website. I donate money and try to convince everyone I know to vote, regardless of their affiliation.

 

[Harshaw]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

You're mostly complaining about being on the losing side of elections, yet say it's "incongruent with the will of the people." No, more people just voted differently from you.

 

[Mach]

I'm the webmaster of a few political sites and moderate another politics website. I donate money and try to convince everyone I know to vote, regardless of their affiliation.

I suspect it's not nearly enough. I'm not saying that will fix anything, or judging your activism, I suppose I'm in a roundabout way agreeing with you.

There is tremendous incentive in terms of money, power, and celebrity, in political control.
There is only a tiny amount of disassociated incentive for the typical voter.

We need leaders really. We've seen what a corrupt leader can do...get 40% of the population to believe in 1+1=4. I suppose we just need a good leader for a change.
Democrats did pass HR1 anti-corruption as their first order of business, at least they (we) are trying?

 

[Ikari]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

Pffft, you think that's bad. I vote Libertarian. At least your party gets elected about half the time.

 

[Verax]

You're mostly complaining about being on the losing side of elections, yet say it's "incongruent with the will of the people." No, more people just voted differently from you.

One is complaining about the media and Democratic party manipulating the will of the people.

Two, four, and five more people voted with me. So mostly I'm complaining about the will of the people being ignored.

Three is about gerrymandering which exists solely to subvert the will of the people.

 

[Harshaw]

One is complaining about the media and Democratic party manipulating the will of the people.

More Democrats voted for Hillary, by a considerable margin. You were just on the losing side.

As far as the "media manipulating" the will of the people, I often say that Democrats only ever notice media bias during Democratic primaries. Any other time, it's just conservatives whining about a non-existent bias, right? I mean, you don't exactly complain about it when Democrats win.

Two, four, and five more people voted with me.

As for two, not in Utah. And you didn't even vote, anyway.

As for the referenda, I don't know what you're referring to or how they work in Utah.

So mostly I'm complaining about the will of the people being ignored.

Three is about gerrymandering which exists solely to subvert the will of the people.

Much more is made of gerrymandering than actually occurs. Just because you live in a district where the majority of people see things differently from you, it doesn't mean it was "gerrymandered."

You, of course, always have the option of moving to a place where more people are more in line with your preferences.

 

[TheParser]

I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes.

I had to chuckle when I read that sentence of yours.

You are 100% right.

No matter whether one is a Democrat, Republican, Socialist, etc., the changes that are a-coming will blow everyone's mind.

Some of the changes will be truly horrible -- depending, of course, on one's political views.

IMHO, many people twenty years from now will look back on 2019 with nostalgia.



Have a nice day!

 

[Mycroft]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

Then do everyone a favor and don't vote.

 

[Mr Person]

I live in MA. Doesn't matter who I vote for on the national level.



(But on a popular vote, it would)

 

[Mr Person]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

You're mostly complaining about being on the losing side of elections, yet say it's "incongruent with the will of the people." No, more people just voted differently from you.

No, that's not what he's doing.

You're just bait-gloating at him for living in a state where he has to live under your "team's" standards.

 

[Atheist 2020]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

Under the Trump era, the political power of the federal government is getting weaker, and the power of the states are getting stronger. Utah, and other red states, are playing a zero-sum-game with each other. States to look at, is California, Oregon, Hawaii and Washington -- as they are looking at trade, culture and economics with Asia and the whole of the Pacific theater of governments. If you want your vote to count, it is time to move to California.

 

[Verax]

More Democrats voted for Hillary, by a considerable margin. You were just on the losing side.

So I guess you don't remember the whole Wikileaks and Russia thing?

As far as the "media manipulating" the will of the people, I often say that Democrats only ever notice media bias during Democratic primaries. Any other time, it's just conservatives whining about a non-existent bias, right? I mean, you don't exactly complain about it when Democrats win.

You do realize there is this entire Republican mainstream media that is on the radio, television, online; is extremely well funded and pervasive? Recently we've learned just how incestuous Fox news is with the white house. Tell me, what major left wing news organizations were supportive or at least treated Bernie neutrally during the primaries? Oh yes, none. How many of them gave Hillary the red carpet treatment? ALL OF THEM.

As for two, not in Utah. And you didn't even vote, anyway.

The electoral college makes millions of votes worthless, not just mine.

As for the referenda, I don't know what you're referring to or how they work in Utah.

Much more is made of gerrymandering than actually occurs. Just because you live in a district where the majority of people see things differently from you, it doesn't mean it was "gerrymandered."

You, of course, always have the option of moving to a place where more people are more in line with your preferences.

55% of the electorate having 85% of the power is what gerrymandering does. Sometimes it's even worse where the minority wins a majority of seats.

Nah I'm not moving, I'm going to force my socialist agenda on Utah until I die. :lol:

 

[Harshaw]

So I guess you don't remember the whole Wikileaks and Russia thing?

You were referring to the primaries. If that did anything, it hurt Hillary. Yet considerably more Democrats voted for Hillary than did for your Bernie, despite "the whole Wikileaks and Russia thing." As I said, you were just on the losing side.

You do realize there is this entire Republican mainstream media that is on the radio, television, online; is extremely well funded and pervasive? Recently we've learned just how incestuous Fox news is with the white house. Tell me, what major left wing news organizations were supportive or at least treated Bernie neutrally during the primaries? Oh yes, none. How many of them gave Hillary the red carpet treatment? ALL OF THEM.

:shrug:

You're pretty much proving my point. You don't give a **** about those same "left-wing news organizations" being neutral during the general election. You only worry about it during the primaries.

The electoral college makes millions of votes worthless, not just mine.

No, that's just how you're choosing to view it, as though you're voting in a system we don't have. Your vote counts just as much as any other Utahan's on the question of who gets Utah's electoral votes, which is the matter you're voting on.

55% of the electorate having 85% of the power is what gerrymandering does.

And what do those numbers refer to?

Nah I'm not moving, I'm going to force my socialist agenda on Utah until I die. :lol:

:lol: Isn't the problem you're having is that you know you can't?

 

[Hypothetical]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

well, technically its a republic... but even though I support the electoral college, I can only say that the last part of this would be a good thing

 

[Verax]

You were referring to the primaries. If that did anything, it hurt Hillary. Yet considerably more Democrats voted for Hillary than did for your Bernie, despite "the whole Wikileaks and Russia thing." As I said, you were just on the losing side.

:shrug:

You're pretty much proving my point. You don't give a **** about those same "left-wing news organizations" being neutral during the general election. You only worry about it during the primaries.

No, that's just how you're choosing to view it, as though you're voting in a system we don't have. Your vote counts just as much as any other Utahan's on the question of who gets Utah's electoral votes, which is the matter you're voting on.

And what do those numbers refer to?

:lol: Isn't the problem you're having is that you know you can't?

You just jump around and avoid whatever the real argument is and bring up non sequitur's. Pointless to "debate" you. :shrug:

 

[Harshaw]

You just jump around and avoid whatever the real argument is and bring up non sequitur's. Pointless to "debate" you. :shrug:

What was a "non-sequitur"? Everything I said -- that is, everything -- was a direct response to what you yourself said. Every single thing. I didn't "jump" to anything.

 

[Bodi]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

I didn't vote for years in CA. As a Republican my vote didn't count for anything. The EC is a joke and disenfranchises half its citizens.

 

[VanceMack]

You dont live in a 'democracy'. You live in a representative democracy. Do you REALLY want to live in a 'democracy' that is driven by simple majority rules?

I think what YOU want is an anarcho-syndicalist commune, where you take turns to act as sort of supreme executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but that requires two thirds majority in the case of foreign affairs.

 

[PirateMk1]

Well since your vote doesn't count how much would you be willing to sell your ballot for?

 

[Port & Starboard]

I was reading an article earlier today about how the country is being ruled in a manner that is highly incongruent with the will of the people. One of the arguments that was made to counter was to "get out and vote". I pondered that for some time and thought about the effects of my voting record. I realized not a single vote I made mattered whatsoever.

1. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary. The media and DNC neutralized it.
2. I didn't vote in the presidential election because Utah is too red and the popular vote doesn't count.
3. In the midterms I voted for my desired house representative, my district is so gerrymandered it was pointless.
4. I voted for Medicaid expansion, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.
5. I voted for medical marijuana legalization, it passed, lawmakers ignored it.

What kind of "democracy" is this? Net neutrality is supported by ~85% of the public, congress ignored that and went ahead with special interests. Medicare for all is supported by most but treated as a fringe idea by the media and lawmakers. I could go on and on about how policy doesn't reflect the will of the people, we all know this.

How long can this go on before revolution? I think in the next 20 years we are going to see some pretty incredible changes. Once the oligarchs lose control and their crony democracy cracks, I believe we will see a rapid transformation into a country far more concerned with the welfare of the average individual, rather than that of billionaires and millionaires getting every last penny possible.

Cute...... another I hate the rich thread.

5 cities alone would control the entire USA under your popular vote Utopia.

 

[Kobie]

You're mostly complaining about being on the losing side of elections, yet say it's "incongruent with the will of the people." No, more people just voted differently from you.

Apparently you ignored Nos. 4 and 5.

 

[Verax]

well, technically its a republic... but even though I support the electoral college, I can only say that the last part of this would be a good thing

You dont live in a 'democracy'. You live in a representative democracy. Do you REALLY want to live in a 'democracy' that is driven by simple majority rules?

I think what YOU want is an anarcho-syndicalist commune, where you take turns to act as sort of supreme executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but that requires two thirds majority in the case of foreign affairs.

I didn't say I want to live in a direct democracy. If your vote for your leaders is discounted, then what power does one have? None at all.

 

[VanceMack]

I didn't say I want to live in a direct democracy. If your vote for your leaders is discounted, then what power does one have? None at all.

Try voting Libertarian sometime.......