kcasper said:I don't like abortion, but after understanding all sides I don't see how to get rid of it.
A fetus is extremely fragile. If a woman is determined to get rid of the fetus then they will find a way. If a woman can a find a friend then the number of ways to kill a fetus increase exponetially. A syringe with something non-toxic is really all it takes sad to say. Flood the child. So simply making abortion illegal won't stop it.
Several years ago I was on a site much like this one. Someone posted several ways to abort a Baby and a young girl found herself in the emergency room. She almost bleed to death.
What could?
Well we can't stop sex. Sorry fellow catholics, I don't agree with my religion on that point. It is more interfering than practical to try.
So you are a cafeteria catholic? Do you go to mass, confession, and communion.?
I was in a women's physcology class in college. They mentioned that one of the larger demographic of women get abortions due to support issues. I believe it.
I feel if a woman want to have the baby the male should pay pregnancy support. As the future mom will need maternity cloths, Doctor visits, Medicine, Vitamins, If she has to be on bed rest she will even need more support. I think the guy should be just as responsible. Maybe this would cut down on the number of abortions.
One of my cousines is a single mother who has had big social issues. For example the catholic church refused to baptize her child. The priest didn't think she could support her child because she was single. She left the catholic church.
Or how about this article Catholic school fires pregnant, unwed teacher The school fired a teacher because she is single and pregnant. They even praised her "high degree of professionalism" as they fired her.
It is a Catholic School there are religious beliefs being taught there. She violated those beliefs. That was a condition of employment. She violated that condition.
I find it interesting that the catholic church which is very anti-abortion is a cause of a number of these support problems.
No our goverment is. To many males in congress (note I am a male we are not all bad)
Not only that Catholic Social Services helps thousands of women. You know the Bishop's annual appeal you give to.
So this country has major negative cultural issues regarding pregnant women.
That has change we are not in the fifties anymore.
Birth control isn't a full solution. It won't protect against all pregnancies.
Yes and it won' t protect against AIDS either . You can not abort AIDS
More reasons for abstinance.
Adoption has a bad stench in this nation. If all of those abortions turned into adoptions, then the system would be overran.
You are mistaken. 200,000 people waiting to adopt a baby only 25,000 babies for adoption My wife and I waited 5 years for our daughter. Many people are traveling to Africa, China, Korea, Eastern Europe to adopt.
It also doesn't solve the stigma problem with pregnancies that our society has. People would never except it.
You might have the stigma but again this is not the 50's
What is left?
I hate to say this pro-lifers, but you need to find solutions to alot more than just making it illegal.
Yes I agree but it does have to be ilegal.
So I suppose I am pro-choice, but only because I yet to see any solutions to the complex side problems that will happen when making abortion illegal.
kcasper said:I don't like abortion, but after understanding all sides I don't see how to get rid of it.
A fetus is extremely fragile. If a woman is determined to get rid of the fetus then they will find a way. If a woman can a find a friend then the number of ways to kill a fetus increase exponetially. A syringe with something non-toxic is really all it takes sad to say. Flood the child. So simply making abortion illegal won't stop it.
Just because you cant stop it doesnt mean we should keep it legal, the goverment could at least send a message discouraging abortion AND help people avoid it.
What could?
Well we can't stop sex. Sorry fellow catholics, I don't agree with my religion on that point. It is more interfering than practical to try.
I am not Catholic however I do agree w/ almost all Catholic ideas (you seem to make Catholics appear 'anti-sex' they are agaisnt pre-martial sex....not sex)...now in America a 1st world country birth control is not only cheap but efficient...theres little excuse for not using birth controll, and then having abortion.
I was in a women's physcology class in college. They mentioned that one of the larger demographic of women get abortions due to support issues. I believe it.
One of my cousines is a single mother who has had big social issues. For example the catholic church refused to baptize her child. The priest didn't think she could support her child because she was single. She left the catholic church.
Or how about this article Catholic school fires pregnant, unwed teacher The school fired a teacher because she is single and pregnant. They even praised her "high degree of professionalism" as they fired her.
I find it interesting that the catholic church which is very anti-abortion is a cause of a number of these support problems.
So this country has major negative cultural issues regarding pregnant women.
Birth control isn't a full solution. It won't protect against all pregnancies.
Ah it isnt a "full" solution but it is a HUGE solution condoms are what? 50 cents to a few bucks, and they have a very high prevention rate combined with a birth control method used by the female that kills any sperm entering the vagina you get about a 99.5% prevention rate, so again theres very little excuse for using abortion as an option.
Adoption has a bad stench in this nation. If all of those abortions turned into adoptions, then the system would be overran. It also doesn't solve the stigma problem with pregnancies that our society has. People would never except it.
What is left?
I hate to say this pro-lifers, but you need to find solutions to alot more than just making it illegal.
Making it illegal would DEFINITLY reduce the amount of abortions becuase people would then think twice before having unprotected sex.
So I suppose I am pro-choice, but only because I yet to see any solutions to the complex side problems that will happen when making abortion illegal.
So the fact that the solutions are not 100% fool proof justifies keeping abotion legal???
steen said:PS. The catholic Church is AGAINST birth control
Proudly Pro Life JP Freem said:OK but don't you think you should tell your priest?
Well, I am a bit confused about your stance, because up above, you stated that:Blizzard Warrior said:Yes I know that, now thats why you dont have pre-martail sex, so that when you have kids it should be in a good stable family enviroment so theres no need for birth control, or abortion, seems not only logical but also ethical to me. What do u think?
Thanks for clarifying.Blizzard Warrior said:I think whats happening is your reading my posts and taking things out of context or that apply to one point, and compare them to another. So what Im going to do is set my veiwpoint on the VARIOUS issues that is being discussed straight. Ok firstly I said that I agree with most Catholic ideas, now I personally am agaisnt pre-martial sex altother, I am also agaisnt Abortion. Now about birth control, Catholics are agaisnt it, I personally am not.
25% of abortions are to married women. 58% of abortions are after the couple used contraception.So bascailly no sex until marriage, once marriage you can or cannot use birth control
it may niot be contraception, but it certainly is birth control. It controls whether birth will happen or not.(and abortion is not a form of birth control).
Ah, but when your friends, the catholics actively works against birth control, makes it more expensive and harder to get AND gfights the sex-ed that could have taught people how to actually use it correctly, then you need to sweep before your own door first. reigh in your friends and their opposition to birth control and sex-ed. Because they are the MAIN reason why we have so many abortions here in the US. (and again, 58% of all abortions are after the use of birth control.)Regarding you example of my hypocracy I am simply saying that with all the good birth control methods out there, there shouldnt be a mass need for abortions,
It is not your business to dicate other people's sex-life.AND that although birth control is availbe and people should be able to use it, one shouldnt run into that situation if your married in a good stable family enviroment, however if you want to have sex for reasons other then having kids (and ur in a good Family enivroment), then by all means use birth control, just dont use abortion)
steen said:Thanks for clarifying.
25% of abortions are to married women. 58% of abortions are after the couple used contraception.
it may niot be contraception, but it certainly is birth control. It controls whether birth will happen or not.
Ah, but when your friends, the catholics actively works against birth control, makes it more expensive and harder to get AND gfights the sex-ed that could have taught people how to actually use it correctly, then you need to sweep before your own door first. reigh in your friends and their opposition to birth control and sex-ed. Because they are the MAIN reason why we have so many abortions here in the US. (and again, 58% of all abortions are after the use of birth control.)
It is not your business to dicate other people's sex-life.
Nope. Out of all abortions, 25% are to married women. Out of all abortions, 58% are to women who used contraceptions. There doesn't even have to be an overlap here.Blizzard Warrior said:-Your first statistic truely suprises me to the point where i think your stating a false fact. becaue wht your saying is that over 1 in 2 abortions take place in a marriage after the couple used contraception.
yes, it is off all abortions.Now unless by couple you mean married OR unmarried,
Depends on the type of contraception. But remember that a high security in a lot of people having sex can still be a high number. But anyway, here is the link (that year, 21% of abortions were to married women, BTW):and contracption is useally 99.5% effective,so i would like to see where you got your statistics from.
Sure.-yes it does control birth but its not a form on contraception,
Says who? your personal belief about this doesn't make that a fact.and its not an ethical form of it either.
There is no such thing, it is prolife emotional hyperbole. It does not involve birth (this discussion is ongoing in another tread. I suggest you don't go there). The name of the procedure is Dilation and Intact Extraction (D&X) as differentiated from Dilation and Extraction (D&E)partial birth abortions are a form of birth control
They are not illegal, and your view of ethics, of course, is very subjective and thus not factual.but are illegal and unethical.
Huh? I am not belittling them; I am pointing out that the policies pushed by the Catholic Church goes against reduction of unwanted pregnancies and thus lead to MORE abortions.-I am not sure what your trying to accomplish by belittling my Catholic freinds, I said i disagree with them on that point...and your only helping my arugemnt not hurting it.
It is tissue. Is it your duty to protect the life of a tumor cell? Is it your duty to protect the woman from slavery?-it is NOT my business do dictate other peoples sex, but it IS our humane duty and the goverments to protect the life of the unborn and silent.
Rather, there is nothign wrong with an abortion.doughgirl said:I always thought, two wrongs dont make a right. Well liberals and pro-choicers think that it does.
Your hate mongering ad hominem is duly noted.blizzard Warrior replies to this posted by steen
"The catholic Church is AGAINST birth control"
Blizzard says,
"Yes I know that, now thats why you dont have pre-martail sex, so that when you have kids it should be in a good stable family enviroment so theres no need for birth control, or abortion, seems not only logical but also ethical to me. What do u think?"
Your asking steen this question??????????? :rofl
I have no clue what you are saying. Your grammar is atrocious and non-sensible. I have shown the very post where you expressed your statement. There was nothing there about a Gallup poll, other than the very first line. Wow, do you mean that all of that post was from the poll and you didn't tell us? Isn't that kind of plagiarism? Yes, you posted a link, but certainly nothing more than the first paragraph seemed to come from a poll, did it now.doughgirl said:steen........as soon as you site that the quote you have attributed to me was from a gallop poll.
Ah, so what you are attributing to me was NOT y words. Yes, so you lied. I am not surprised. You sure seem to lie in just about every one of your posts that I see. And now you are evidencing that EVERY ONE of your posts carry outright lies in the sig.doughgirl said:and you don't remember what you say? :lol:
You were asked this question........"So your telling me that a 5 month fetus doesn't feel his or her limps getting ripped off by a vacuum?...."
YOU ANSWERED..........
That would be true, yes.[/B]
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