My Kid's 'Kent State'!

[Chomsky]

When I heard four died in D.C. yesterday, the thread title was my first exclamation to my kid as we watched the news roll-in:

"This is your generation's Kent State!"

The sides have changed, but the similarities are eerily similar.

Kent State brought the era of, 'Peace, Love, & Dope', to an abrupt end. What began with The Human Be-In in early '67, progressed through the Summer of Love - only to come crashing down in Altamont and dying for good on the campus of Kent State, nearly four years later. There, it all got real. Real for the movement. And, real for the establishment. Four died. As we watched.

Neil Young, always willing to imprint his unique individualist iconoclastic take on events, quickly penned the well known verses to, 'Ohio'

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drummin'
Four dead in Ohio

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?

And now, around four years into MAGA, their movement has had a similar incident. And it seems it's producing many of the same profound changes - a similar wake-up call - as Kent State did.

Anyway, one can hope.

I'll leave you with the earlier event's most iconic & indelible image, along with it's poignant musical composition response, both of a half century hence:

[Oddly enough, the two events are exactly half a century - 50 yrs - apart!]

 

[swing_voter]

Did you know a Gallup poll showed that 85% of Americans supported the National Guard troops over the students at Kent State? Americans felt the shootings were justified.

Funny how they revisioned the history.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Did you know a Gallup poll showed that 85% of Americans supported the National Guard troops over the students at Kent State? Americans felt the shootings were justified.

Funny how they revisioned the history.

Do you support what the National Guard did?

Sadly, it's 5 dead now that the Capitol police officer died.

 

[Rexedgar]

I was a junior in high school when this happened. I come from a military family and remember siding with the National Guard troops, at the time. Smart money says you don’t **** with armed troops with flowers. I also thought that Jimi Hendrix’s rendition of the anthem was a sacrilege.

Times have changed.........

 

[Chomsky]

Did you know a Gallup poll showed that 85% of Americans supported the National Guard troops over the students at Kent State? Americans felt the shootings were justified.

Funny how they revisioned the history.

Interesting. It was an unfortunate incident for all. The demonstrators had the guard on the run and were chasing them down, inadvertently physically trapping them on three sides, while still rushing-in on the fourth. Many of those guardsmen were green ROTC kids, the same age as the protestors. They were trapped, and panicked & fired. But, they had some right to fear given the circumstances.

And as can seen by Neil Young's lyrics, he wasn't alone among young people in thinking the movement had gone too far. The establishment & middle-America may have believed the guard was justified, but they still were taken-back by the tragedy of the loss.

The movement died that day, in many peoples' minds. Concurrently, the SDS expelled the Weatherman, and the movement splintered with the main body decrying & eschewing violence and expelling the violent radicals.

For the establishment's part, mainstream America turned against the War, even as they still declared war (rightfully) upon the radicals. But they came to differentiate between the counter-culture movement, and the radical anti-war movement, realizing it was time to end the damn overseas war and stop waging war on their kids who didn't want to go over.

Of course besides ending the war, the ultimate peace was made with Carter granting amnesty to the on-the-run draft-dodgers. It was essentially 5 years after the era came to a close, but put the coda on it to close it for good!

It's really a fascinating era, my friend!

It was a wake-up call for all, just as I hope D.C. is.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

The Trump presidency has felt like the era of Richard Nixon.

I was too young to remember that time but it does feel like we're experiencing he 60's again with the protests and a morally corrupt president.

 

[Chomsky]

I was a junior in high school when this happened. I come from a military family and remember siding with the National Guard troops, at the time. Smart money says you don’t **** with armed troops with flowers. I also thought that Jimi Hendrix’s rendition of the anthem was a sacrilege.

Times have changed.........

Many of those guardsmen were green ROTC kids, the same age as the protestors. The protestors had them on the run, chasing them down, and inadvertently the guard got physically trapped on three sides by the topography, with the protestors continuing to rush-in. Trapped with nowhere left to run, the guardsmen panicked & turned & fired.

It was a terrible, unfortunate incident. One of those times when everyone involved is a victim of the circumstances brought-on by their high-strung actions and circumstances beyond their control.

I have no animus towards the guard. They were kids, stuck in an unfortunate circumstance. And hell, even CSNY were able to see the whole thing had gone to far - and they were as much a part of the movement as any.

 

[Chomsky]

The Trump presidency has felt like the era of Richard Nixon.

I was too young to remember that time but it does feel like we're experiencing he 60's again with the protests and a morally corrupt president.

But, it gets more complicated! Yesterday, the protestors were the far-Right Trumpers. And, they went too far - as can be seen by the young women's death at the hands of the Capitol Police. This was actually the analogy I was making.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

When I heard four died in D.C. yesterday, the thread title was my first exclamation to my kid as we watched the news roll-in:

"This is your generation's Kent State!"

The sides have changed, but the similarities are eerily similar.

Kent State brought the era of, 'Peace, Love, & Dope', to an abrupt end. What began with The Human Be-In in early '67, progressed through the Summer of Love - only to come crashing down in Altamont and dying for good on the campus of Kent State, nearly four years later. There, it all got real. Real for the movement. And, real for the establishment. Four died. As we watched.

Neil Young, always willing to imprint his unique individualist iconoclastic take on events, quickly penned the well known verses to, 'Ohio'

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drummin'
Four dead in Ohio

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?

And now, around four years into MAGA, their movement has had a similar incident. And it seems it's producing many of the same profound changes - a similar wake-up call - as Kent State did.

Anyway, one can hope.

I'll leave you with the earlier event's most iconic & indelible image, along with it's poignant musical composition response, both of a half century hence:

[Oddly enough, the two events are exactly half a century - 50 yrs - apart!]

What many people do not realize is that the Kent State deaths were NOT the result of the employment of well trained and well led troops who killed people who were threatening them.

The troops opened fire without orders and (in the best Hollywood tradition) "fired over their heads" to attempt to dispel a group that they were afraid was possibly going to maybe attack them. None of the dead people were anywhere near that group - they just happened to be where the bullets that the National Guard personnel had "fired over the heads" of the group that they were panicked by happened to come back down (which those Hollywood bullets never do).

The troops were ill trained and ineptly led. Sergeants and officers should have been cashiered.

The Hong Kong Police used to deal with riots all the time. They turned out fully armed in a three line formation Shield and Baton Line, Shotgun Line, and Sharpshooter Line. They NEVER "fired over their heads". When they had to open fire, the Sharpshooter Line targeted leaders and the Shotgun Line targeted mass. When they had to open fire, they shot to kill. (The rioters knew this and they also knew that, when the Shotgun Line chambered a round that was the signal that it was time for everyone to go home and order pizza - which they did.)

If the Riot Police DID have to open fire, heads rolled because the officers in charge had "obviously" bungled their primary duty which was to defuse the riot WITHOUT (fatal) casualties ("Truncheon Bashing was OK).

 

[washunut]

Many of those guardsmen were green ROTC kids, the same age as the protestors. The protestors had them on the run, chasing them down, and inadvertently the guard got physically trapped on three sides by the topography, with the protestors continuing to rush-in. Trapped with nowhere left to run, the guardsmen panicked & turned & fired.

It was a terrible, unfortunate incident. One of those times when everyone involved is a victim of the circumstances brought-on by their high-strung actions and circumstances beyond their control.

I have no animus towards the guard. They were kids, stuck in an unfortunate circumstance. And hell, even CSNY were able to see the whole thing had gone to far - and they were as much a part of the movement as any.

I lived through that period. Perhaps I did not get all the information but never heard the guard was ever in any danger.

 

[Chomsky]

What many people do not realize is that the Kent State deaths were NOT the result of the employment of well trained and well led troops who killed people who were threatening them.

The troops opened fire without orders and (in the best Hollywood tradition) "fired over their heads" to attempt to dispel a group that they were afraid was possibly going to maybe attack them. None of the dead people were anywhere near that group - they just happened to be where the bullets that the National Guard personnel had "fired over the heads" of the group that they were panicked by happened to come back down (which those Hollywood bullets never do).

The troops were ill trained and ineptly led. Sergeants and officers should have been cashiered.

The Hong Kong Police used to deal with riots all the time. They turned out fully armed in a three line formation Shield and Baton Line, Shotgun Line, and Sharpshooter Line. They NEVER "fired over their heads". When they had to open fire, the Sharpshooter Line targeted leaders and the Shotgun Line targeted mass. When they had to open fire, they shot to kill. (The rioters knew this and they also knew that, when the Shotgun Line chambered a round that was the signal that it was time for everyone to go home and order pizza - which they did.)

If the Riot Police DID have to open fire, heads rolled because the officers in charge had "obviously" bungled their primary duty which was to defuse the riot WITHOUT (fatal) casualties ("Truncheon Bashing was OK).

I was not aware those struck were incidental to the main thrust of the protesters. Going by memory, I do remember the protestors had the guard in retreat and on the run, and inadvertently backed them into a corner, where they then turned & opened fire.

I think I'm going to do a bit of research, and see what additional thought may have popped-up over the years.

 

[Bullseye]

When I heard four died in D.C. yesterday, the thread title was my first exclamation to my kid as we watched the news roll-in:

"This is your generation's Kent State!"

The sides have changed, but the similarities are eerily similar.

Kent State brought the era of, 'Peace, Love, & Dope', to an abrupt end. What began with The Human Be-In in early '67, progressed through the Summer of Love - only to come crashing down in Altamont and dying for good on the campus of Kent State, nearly four years later. There, it all got real. Real for the movement. And, real for the establishment. Four died. As we watched.

Neil Young, always willing to imprint his unique individualist iconoclastic take on events, quickly penned the well known verses to, 'Ohio'

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drummin'
Four dead in Ohio

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?

And now, around four years into MAGA, their movement has had a similar incident. And it seems it's producing many of the same profound changes - a similar wake-up call - as Kent State did.

Anyway, one can hope.

I'll leave you with the earlier event's most iconic & indelible image, along with it's poignant musical composition response, both of a half century hence:

[Oddly enough, the two events are exactly half a century - 50 yrs - apart!]

I remember this. We boycotted the college entrances. I lost a girlriend when I went on campus to take an Organic Chemistry midterm and she spotted me driving out the gate.

 

[Chomsky]

I lived through that period. Perhaps I did not get all the information but never heard the guard was ever in any danger.

They may or may not have been. But they felt trapped, and panicked.

As I told TU Curmudgeon, I think I'm going to do some research and see what the years have let come to light.

But my main point was the movement had a day of reckoning there, on both sides.

 

[Chomsky]

I remember this. We boycotted the college entrances. I lost a girlriend when I went on campus to take an Organic Chemistry midterm and she spotted me driving out the gate.

Thanks for your input. Was this at Kent State? (If I'm not invading your privacy?)

 

[washunut]

They may or may not have been. But they felt trapped, and panicked.

As I told TU Curmudgeon, I think I'm going to do some research and see what the years have let come to light.

But my main point was the movement had a day of reckoning there, on both sides.

No one was ever prosecuted for killing those kids (or the thousands that died needlessly in Vietnam). I see the same thing happening 50 years later.

Reminds me of a song I think you referenced a little while: Sam Cooks' A Change is Going to Come. Sixty years later I am still waiting. Old enough now to despair it will not be in my lifetime.

 

[Bullseye]

Thanks for your input. Was this at Kent State? (If I'm not invading your privacy?)

No, in Sacramento. Back in my Long Hair Hippie Wierdo years.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I lived through that period. Perhaps I did not get all the information but never heard the guard was ever in any danger.

They were not ACTUALLY in danger, but they THOUGHT that they were in danger and their NCOs and Officers didn't have a grip on them.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I was not aware those struck were incidental to the main thrust of the protesters. Going by memory, I do remember the protestors had the guard in retreat and on the run, and inadvertently backed them into a corner, where they then turned & opened fire.

I think I'm going to do a bit of research, and see what additional thought may have popped-up over the years.

I used to have a whole bunch of links on that subject, but I had a "mishap" with my computer and lost them.