ricksfolly
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
- Messages
- 2,236
- Reaction score
- 232
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO 81506
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
So do you think that in a COIN operation telling everyone the date you are going to leave whether you are have won or not is a good idea. COIN, in general terms, is all about convincing the local population that supporting the insurgency is a bad move and that the local government is the key to a better way of life. Telling the locals that you want them to support the local government, which could be bad for their health if the insurgency wins, while at the same time telling them that we are only going to support them until a certain date then they are are on their own is pretty much the same thing as telling them to either do nothing or support the insurgency. I have no problem with the US having a exit date and it might even be a good idea. Telling the world the date is nothing but a pure political move disregarding the fact that it will compromise the military mission. It is not far of from telling the Germans the date we intended to land at Normandy. If you think that the locals in Astan don't know about this and it is a common reason for them not supporting the Astan Gov than you don't know what is going on over there.
While you or I might not believe that we are going to leave on the date that is set by the president. I have been asked on several occasions by afghans why they should get involved in supporting the gov if we are just going to leave and allow the country to be taken back over by the Taliban. That right there should be enough reason for anyone to not publicly announce our time table for withdrawal or even be talking publicly about leaving before the job is done. What is more important winning the war or gaining some political points.
If we win the war, then what do we win? Prestige? I would rather win the war on poverty here at home.
If we win the war in Afghanistan, Afghanistan will no longer be a staging area and recruiting ground for radical Islamic terrorists, including Al Qaeda, who are enemies of the United States and have struck at us mutiple times.
If we win the war in Afghanistan, Afghanistan will no longer be a staging area and recruiting ground for radical Islamic terrorists, including Al Qaeda, who are enemies of the United States and have struck at us mutiple times.
Overall the costs of winning in Afghani lives and US dollars are something the US public are most likely unwilling to support
Ultimately, the war comes down a cost benefit equation with the following basic variables: The probability of winning the war and creating a stable Afghanistan multiplied by the decreased probability of a terrorist attack on the U.S. based on denying Afghanistan as a place multiplied by the expected losses from a terrorist attack. On the side, you have cost of the war in both lives and money. In order for the war to be worth it, you need to be saving a lot of hypothetical losses from terrorism to make up the real losses from the war.
That's because the American public doesn't have the spine to finish a war. We're all too quick to beat the drum and start a war, but once the shooting starts we lose our resolve. That's really very unfortunate, because half-finished wars and political defeats create terrible problems that we're going to have to address later and cost us the credibility that is vitally important to our national defense. If you were an enemy of the United States, would you not be emboldened by the fact that it's been more than sixty years since we have fought a war with the full political and public support to necessary to win?
You are forgetting one factor: the increased risk of terror attacks against American assets and allies that would be created by the failure of our foreign policy. Our actions have destablized conditions in Afghanistan and Pakistan and caused the deaths of thousands of people, civilian and terrorist alike. The worst possible thing we can do is compound this failure by abandoning American allies in the region and demonstrating that we are an unreliable partner.
GOP survival politics took another shot at Obama's manhood yesterday by undermining his decision to draw down troops in Afghanistan by July 1011. On ABC's This week, and CBS Face The Nation, Reps McCain and Graham reran the old tired chestnut that if we tell the enemy when we're, leaving he'll wait us out.
McCain played his experience card, which has no bearing on running down terrorists (Afghanistan patriots) and Graham rolled out his tired twisted logic. No real end plan, just more rabble rousing spam.
Gen Petraeus announced that he had no intention of following his Commander In Chief's exit plan (blatant mutiny), but really has no plan of his own, just to win by winning. Of course if Pet gets dumped, the Reps will be all over Obama, probably move to impeach him. Nothing personal, just more survival politics that have nothing to do with what the people want.
ricksfolly
You are forgetting one factor: the increased risk of terror attacks against American assets and allies that would be created by the failure of our foreign policy. Our actions have destablized conditions in Afghanistan and Pakistan and caused the deaths of thousands of people, civilian and terrorist alike. The worst possible thing we can do is compound this failure by abandoning American allies in the region and demonstrating that we are an unreliable partner.
Karzai simply grafts himself to America for personal power, and we prop him up to in an attempt to get a friendly regime in Afghanistan. If he can't deliver his end of the bargain, why should we continue to expend lives and money to keep him in power?
I am quite comfortable with announcing to the world that we will dump allies of convenience when they are no longer convenient. The Saudi's in particular would benefit from that understanding.
Did US win the war in Iraq now that combat troops is starting to pull out?
That's because the American public doesn't have the spine to finish a war. We're all too quick to beat the drum and start a war, but once the shooting starts we lose our resolve. That's really very unfortunate, because half-finished wars and political defeats create terrible problems that we're going to have to address later and cost us the credibility.....
GOP survival politics took another shot at Obama's manhood yesterday by undermining his decision to draw down troops in Afghanistan by July 1011. On ABC's This week, and CBS Face The Nation, Reps McCain and Graham reran the old tired chestnut that if we tell the enemy when we're, leaving he'll wait us out.
McCain played his experience card, which has no bearing on running down terrorists (Afghanistan patriots) and Graham rolled out his tired twisted logic. No real end plan, just more rabble rousing spam.
Gen Petraeus announced that he had no intention of following his Commander In Chief's exit plan (blatant mutiny), but really has no plan of his own, just to win by winning. Of course if Pet gets dumped, the Reps will be all over Obama, probably move to impeach him. Nothing personal, just more survival politics that have nothing to do with what the people want.
ricksfolly
Gee, I remember when Bush was in office, when Republicans called those who openly disagreed with his military strategies traitors who gave aid and comfort to the enemy. So what changed between then and now? Ah, that's right. A different party in office. Now those who openly disagree with the president's military strategies are heroes and patriots. Got it.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?