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More shitty cops

ModernDiogenes said:
I’ve been staring for ages that we are exhibiting trends from our past history; political, economic and SOCIAL/CULTURAL that led us to some bad places 100 years ago.
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I'd be interested to hear what you think those trends are. I think it's common to believe we live in a 'unique' age, but I do actually think it is the case right now. Demographic change and globalization, primacy of secularism, hypersensitivity to the social order, and technology all pose unique challenges to the social order... and they're all challenging this order at the same time.

This was kind of the point of my reply to the OP. It's so easy - trite even - to shit on the current order and say how bad it is. What's actually challenging is coming up with a new order so that a consensus in society remains and we can still function as a coherent nation.

Unfortunately we live in an era of intellectual luddites. Lots of midwits who are chomping at the bit to give their hot take on an issue no one disagrees with, very few people willing to think up solutions to real problems.
 
aociswundumho said:
The difference is in most states you can defend yourself against criminals, however nowhere can you legally defend yourself against some low IQ douche bag wearing a blue costume.
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That is not the case.

Know the law. Practice it wisely. Pick good people to make the rules and represent your interests. Be involved enough in the process to do that. You limit the number of bad spokes in the wheel that way.

Then, common sense, don’t go looking to cause trouble in the name of resolving problems. I’ve never yet seen a fire put out with gasoline.

Add to that, if you do bump into a bad apple pick your spot. There are no courts in the street. You know your law, you obey as directed, you get good representation and handle it later, in front of a judge. Like a thinking man (like I said, women are generally smarter than men in this sort of stuff).
 
Yeah I agree with you he's baiting this interaction and he is purposefully trying to annoy that police officer.

But still police need to be aware of this and do not take the bait. The second they do annoying people like this win
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah I agree with you he's baiting this interaction and he is purposefully trying to annoy that police officer.

But still police need to be aware of this and do not take the bait. The second they do annoying people like this win
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I don't have a problem with people observing police actions. However, what I saw in this video is just stupid. I'm also not anti-cop. It's a very dangerous and demanding job, and I respect those who do it. It's just that interactions with cops IRL are almost always a bad situation one way or the other, so if you told me that I'd never randomly interact with a cop again other than socially, I'd be happy about that.
 
Helix said:
I don't have a problem with people observing police actions. However, what I saw in this video is just stupid. I'm also not anti-cop. It's a very dangerous and demanding job, and I respect those who do it.
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I agree.
Helix said:
It's just that interactions with cops IRL are almost always a bad situation one way or the other, so if you told me that I'd never randomly interact with a cop again other than socially, I'd be happy about that.
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I really think interacting with police is based on the person they are interacting with. If that had been me I would have been real polite. Explain what I was doing and the police officer would have waited at me because I don't have a chip on my shoulder about this.

I've never had an interaction with the police officer anywhere close to this hostile because I'm not a hot head

But for whatever reason there are plenty there are people that just absolutely hate the cops and are scared of them.
 
I pissed off an off duty cop once in the 90s. I didn't know that he was an off duty cop. I just thought that he was a garden variety asshole being aggressive in traffic, so I flipped him off. Big mistake. He forced me off the road and threatened to call his buddies and to have me arrested. The situation did not come to a head, and everyone drove off. I don't think that most cops are like that, though. Also, don't flip off aggressive assholes in traffic. Let them go on to find their own destinies.
 
Gozaburo said:
Here's my broader point: it's very vogue (if correct in a narrow sense) to call some cops power tripping pigs.
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It's been pretty common since the 60's and now with camera phones and body cams, that belief is only being supported, proven, more and more.

And just imagining the extent to which it happened over decades or more, the harm, abuse, killing, etc...is enough out outrage any decent person but even more so people of color IMO.

To attempt to minimize it now, when we know what's caught on camera is still just a tip of the iceberg in everyday real life, is appalling.

You seemed to be trying to expand social outrage further to others but this is about cops, which you admit are not the same. What is the reason for your minimization or shifting of attention? Why not focus on the very real abuse by cops?
 
Indeed. You can either put gasoline on a fire or water. I opt for water most of the time but my emotions scream at me for gasoline. Anytime I've listened to it it's gone wrong.
 
I had an off-duty cop come into my business one day and try to pick a fight over the shirt I was wearing.

I just walked away and told him our interaction was now over.
 
Gardener said:
I had an off-duty cop come into my business one day and try to pick a fight over the shirt I was wearing.

I just walked away and told him our interaction was now over.
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C'mon now....You gonna leave us hanging on the obvious question??
 
Real blank said:
The guy filming is the asshole
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The guy who asks the cop for a foot or two of space and the cop that immediately steps forward right into the camera guys face?
 
Bodi said:
The guy who asks the cop for a foot or two of space and the cop that immediately steps forward right into the camera guys face?
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Yes
 
Lursa said:
..is enough out outrage any decent person but even more so people of color IMO.
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I already conceded this probably isn't the correct thread for the point I was making.

As for outrage about cops - I don't really think there is an epidemic of abuse (which isn't the same thing as saying abuse doesn't happen) and that is especially true for people of color. If anything, communities of people of color are under policed and lack harsh enforcement, which I would say is unfortunate.

There have been multiple longitudinal on this phenomenon and the basic consensus is that, as is often the case, people tend to avoid the inconvenient implications of per capita statistics. Unfortunately you lose the chicken or the egg dilemma here.

An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.
www.nber.org
 

Please read my post again. I didnt say there was an epidemic. I explained why it appears there's more now.

Edit: I guess you did see it...you intentionally removed the relevant quote from your post. A couple of them it seems.
 
Lursa said:
Please read my post again. I didnt say there was an epidemic. I explained why it appears there's more now.

Edit: I guess you did see it...you intentionally removed the relevant quote from your post. A couple of them it seems.
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I don't think it was intentional to misquote or misconstrue the spirit of your post, sorry if you felt that was the case.

I feel I addressed your accusation.
 
Gozaburo said:
I'd be interested to hear what you think those trends are. I think it's common to believe we live in a 'unique' age, but I do actually think it is the case right now.
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I believe, and graphs plotting historical trend lines back that up, that we are repeating a pattern of past Civil War/Industrial Revolution political, economic, socio-cultural trends that plot through the increased working class puberty (days of “the company store”), a second Gilded Age, “Yellow Journalism”, tribal politics and oligarchical usurping of political power, whose greed induced unsustainable practices led to a complete collapse of our economy, a Great Depression, and a Second World War.

Even a pandemic found its way into the mix at the right point in the repeating timeline.

It’s not unique, it’s a replication of past mistakes that will end as the last one did.
 
Gozaburo said:
I don't think it was intentional to misquote or misconstrue the spirit of your post, sorry if you felt that was the case.

I feel I addressed your accusation.
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My main point was addressing yours...that it's not a trend, "in vogue":


And the majority of your response to me was to discuss how crime has gotten worse and to expand the conversation into all of society. We were discussing police abuse.

So it's not a trend, "In vogue," for US society to be speaking out against it, correct?
 
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Lursa said:
So it's not a trend, "In vogue," for US society to be speaking out against it, correct?
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I'd say it is pretty vogue in the last 10 years or so. Granted it wasn't in the 60's, but it's 2025 now.
 
Gozaburo said:
I'd say it is pretty vogue in the last 10 years or so. Granted it wasn't in the 60's, but it's 2025 now.
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That's just "na huh". I remember when hippies and teens started calling cops "pigs" and screaming about "the Establishment" and the abuses. These were made worse by things like police actions during Vietnam protests and after Kent State (even tho that was Nat. Guard). Do you remember the LA riots in 1992? That was all about police abuse.

It hasnt gone anywhere. As I also wrote, the reason "it seems" more prevalent (in vogue) now is because of camera phones and body cams to record the actual abuse more often and the social media platforms to expose it on. This is a reasoned argument...what do you have that's more than "na huh" to dispute it?
 
They are now starting what they should have been doing in the beginning when the problems started. Ignoring the fact that, unfortunately, the job of police officer seems to attract a disproportionate number of psychopaths to the profession -- what I see here is one officer who either a) is one of those psychopaths looking for a fight, or b) the officer in question seems to have gotten an adrenaline rush that he can't handle.

However, the sergeant does a great job of talking his subordinate down and walking him away from the situation. It may be marginal right now, but I do see progress. A small victory that can add up to better results with the right training. A little more training in de-escalation tactics, not only of a situation but of yourself, and we are poised for some huge progress to the point that officers will no longer have an excuse and the initial confrontation as posted will be very rare.
 
Lursa said:
That's just "na huh"
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Well no, there is data to support my claim:

Gallup polling demonstrates trust in police hovering around 50% in contemporary society: https://www.police1.com/community-p...icing-has-increased-over-past-year-poll-shows

GSS and ICPSR surveys (you'll have to download the dataset) show ~75% trust in the police around 1965, so a significant decline. https://gss.norc.org/us/en/gss/get-the-data.html


So it seems the attitude is more prevalent because the attitude is more prevalent, which isn't the same as saying the attitude never existed. Now that you've been presented with data which contradicts your position, are you going to walk back your claim or ignore the data and continue to gaslight?

I can only guess which option you'll choose.
 

I addressed that directly. So please do the same to mine. And then consider "who" and "the why" I also discussed.

I'm not looking at you data because it doenst dispute what I wrote. Social conditions changed, the age of the persons polled both times, and social meda/video have exposed much more. The conditions arent parallel enough to make that difference valid. So again...address what I wrote directly...articulate your argument.


That makes no sense, as it seems to be something you want to pretend...but is inaccurate.

So directly refute what I wrote or admit you cant.

Gozaburo said:
I can only guess which option you'll choose.
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You are stuck and cant refute what I wrote.
 
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