Angel
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Please do not quote the entire OP straightaway.
Save DP bandwidth.
Thank you.
Questions
Is belief in God or in a Transcendent Spiritual Reality a necessary condition for a universal and universally binding morality?
Is non-theistic morality anything more than temporary ad hoc moral agreement susceptible to the changing whims of time and place?
Is belief in God or in a Transcendent Spiritual Reality a necessary condition for a universal and universally binding morality?
Is non-theistic morality anything more than temporary ad hoc moral agreement susceptible to the changing whims of time and place?
Morality is subjective regardless of whether or not you believe in God(s)
Morality is also subjective regardless if God(s) exist or not
Morality and Belief in God
6 minutes
"A morality based on belief in God is very different from a morality that is not based on belief in God,
"and the root of that difference is the belief in whether there is a purpose or goal in the existence of the universe
"and particularly whether there is any goal for human beings.
"Is there a way human beings ought to live whatever they think?
"Is there a goal that is proper for them and possible for them to aim at whatever they think.
"A non-theistic morality cannot say there is such a goal."
Keith Ward
"I am, by nature and conviction, an Idealist philosopher, somebody who believes in the supremacy of Spirit or Mind, and who thinks that the material universe is an expression or creation of a Supreme Mind. I see religions as very ambiguous but probably necessary ways of giving humans some awareness of this Supreme Mind. I am a Christian, and became a priest of the Church of England in 1972. But I have an interest in the many diverse ways in which humans have sought spiritual truth, and in trying to understand what these various paths may have to teach. I think the main task for religious believers today is to ensure that their beliefs are conducive to human flourishing and, so far as is possible, to the flourishing of all sentient beings; to relate ancient religious beliefs to the modern scientific world view; and to see their own faith in a truly global context."
https://www.keithward.org.uk/about/
Keith Ward, FBA (born 22 August 1938) is a British philosopher, theologian, priest and scholar. He is a fellow of the British Academy and a priest of the Church of England. He was a canon of Christ Church, Oxford until 2003. Comparative theology and the relationship between science and religion are two of his main topics of interest. He was Regius Professor of Divinity at the University of Oxford from 1991 to 2004.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ward
Questions
Is belief in God or in a Transcendent Spiritual Reality a necessary condition for a universal and universally binding morality?
Is non-theistic morality anything more than temporary ad hoc moral agreement susceptible to the changing whims of time and place?
NB
This thread is a spinoff from gfm7175's currently active thread
Does Objective Morality Exist? & The Moral Argument
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beli...exist-and-and-moral-argument-w-222-829-a.html
Professor Keith Ward is the keynote speaker (post#202) in Angel's currently active thread
Understanding Religion
https://www.debatepolitics.com/beliefs-and-skepticism/322293-understanding-religion.html
Namaste
That is discussing moral epistemology, which I don't find to be relevant to this specific discussion that the OP started (concerning morality based on belief in God vs morality based on social construct). And the position being taken isn't one of "being universally moral", but that the root (grounding) of morality applies universally (to the whole universe).No, because morality is subjective. Even the various religions that DO believe in God or Gods have a different perspective of what is moral and what isn't. The believe in a God (or Gods) doesn't mean you are universally moral.
Regardless of whether there is a "universal morality" or not, that doesn't affect the objectiveness/subjectiveness of morality.The bottom line is morality is subjective and there is not a universal morality out there that everyone can agree on.
I'm moral, probably because I don't believe in a god.
A non-theist can be moral, plenty of times even more-so than a theist.
I don't think that's the focus of the OP, however.
The OP seems to be focused on the "inner workings" of morality between the theist and the non-theist... (how "binding" morality is, and likewise)
Please do not quote the entire OP straightaway.
Save DP bandwidth.
Thank you.
Morality and Belief in God
6 minutes
"A morality based on belief in God is very different from a morality that is not based on belief in God,
"and the root of that difference is the belief in whether there is a purpose or goal in the existence of the universe
"and particularly whether there is any goal for human beings.
"Is there a way human beings ought to live whatever they think?
"Is there a goal that is proper for them and possible for them to aim at whatever they think.
"A non-theistic morality cannot say there is such a goal."
Nope.Is belief in God or in a Transcendent Spiritual Reality a necessary condition for a universal and universally binding morality?
:roll:Is non-theistic morality anything more than temporary ad hoc moral agreement susceptible to the changing whims of time and place?
I guess the binding depends on one's conscience, which can be 100% independent of whether one holds a belief in gods or not.
Case in point would be mistreating some animal. No god law says don't do it. But, yet most of us really won't do it.
I wouldn't assert that it depends on one's conscience. I would assert that it depends on whether a spiritual realm (God) exists or not. If so, then morality would be universally binding and all morality from all societies would funnel back up and be directly accountable to that God, who transcends all things. If not, then morality wouldn't be universally binding, but would only be binding to the whims of whoever was in control of any specific society at any given time.
If there was a God, how do we make money from it, and how does God makes money from it too. Since the earth is only 4.5 billion years old, and modern man is over 100,000 years old. And organized religions are around 7,000 years old. The Jewish religion is a few thousands of years old, being a Catholic is 2,000 years old, and people reading from the King James Bible is a little older then 400 years old. And my upbringing as a Southern Baptist: that type of organized religion is less than 200 years old.
There is a problem
1.) Morality is subjective regardless of whether or not you believe in God(s)
2.) Morality is also subjective regardless if God(s) exist or not
Which god and which morality?
Simply believing in a god does nothing as far as adopting a moral code. It all depends on what kind of belief in god you hold.
Questions
Is belief in God or in a Transcendent Spiritual Reality a necessary condition for a universal and universally binding morality?
Is non-theistic morality anything more than temporary ad hoc moral agreement susceptible to the changing whims of time and place?
I had not run across Ward before. As theists go, he seems interesting. I'll look into him as he seems to possibly have a more broadened perspective than the average Christian theist.
In response to the OP:
Until I see a description of the "universal and universally binding morality", how could I know? Without that, it all comes down to personal feelings, and are subjective until proven otherwise.
A side question that is always present in these discussions : Where are the theists who are living by this "universally binding morality" that's so superior to the morality of non-theists? Surely there must be millions of them somewhere. Islamic jihadis and Christian dominists are not exactly good company to anyone who doesn't share their extreme views.
In theory, there are a lot of people in Hell because...well you know, God wants it that way.
"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. "
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
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