Money, Power, Capitalism in an AI Future

Dans La Lune · May 23, 2025

I pride myself on being able to see patterns and anticipate likely outcomes. I don't see how capitalism survives in a future with AI. People make the mistake of applying AI to our current materialistic nature. That AI will be making clothing, widgets, toys, games, entertainment. I honestly see a lot of that either going away or changing on a scale that makes their production far less susceptible to traditional capitalism, cheap human labor, and extraction. That doesn't mean what replaces it will be better, but it will definitely be different. In the end, we only need food, water, and shelter to survive. The rest are luxuries and preoccupations. Excluding social interactions, of course.

Capitalism as we know it doesn't exist in a society where someone's value isn't reduced to labor and extracted as profit by another human. Money is merely a means to facilitate the exchange of services and resources. The ability for humans to leverage resources over other humans is the foundation of power throughout human history. What does that look like in an automated / AI-ified society? I think more important questions will arise as it relates to the human condition. Like how do we occupy our time, what level human labor is actually required, what do our critical thinking skills look like when AI has all the answers... culture is a reflection of our circumstances and experiences. Culture will be completely alien to our current standards in the coming decades, assuming we survive and can transition to something sane.

AI could be the death of us or it could eventually lead to more of a Star Trek future, which is more egalitarian and post-capitalist existence. Or something in-between.

dmpi · May 23, 2025

Intellectuals and performing artist will be the only jobs available. Man is competitive by nature so these will become much coveted jobs.

Peter · May 23, 2025

We ,aye have to completely rethink the concept of money if almost nobody has a job.

Dans La Lune · May 24, 2025

dmpi said:
Intellectuals and performing artist will be the only jobs available. Man is competitive by nature so these will become much coveted jobs.

I'm in the arts field and it's coming for the artists at full speed. I like the idea of a society that engages in intellectual and artistic pursuits over labor, but that may not be the case with AI. In fact, I think certain forms of labor might be AI-resistant compared to the arts.

bomberfox · May 24, 2025

Dans La Lune said:
I pride myself on being able to see patterns and anticipate likely outcomes. I don't see how capitalism survives in a future with AI. People make the mistake of applying AI to our current materialistic nature. That AI will be making clothing, widgets, toys, games, entertainment. I honestly see a lot of that either going away or changing on a scale that makes their production far less susceptible to traditional capitalism, cheap human labor, and extraction. That doesn't mean what replaces it will be better, but it will definitely be different. In the end, we only need food, water, and shelter to survive. The rest are luxuries and preoccupations. Excluding social interactions, of course.

Capitalism as we know it doesn't exist in a society where someone's value isn't reduced to labor and extracted as profit by another human. Money is merely a means to facilitate the exchange of services and resources. The ability for humans to leverage resources over other humans is the foundation of power throughout human history. What does that look like in an automated / AI-ified society? I think more important questions will arise as it relates to the human condition. Like how do we occupy our time, what level human labor is actually required, what do our critical thinking skills look like when AI has all the answers... culture is a reflection of our circumstances and experiences. Culture will be completely alien to our current standards in the coming decades, assuming we survive and can transition to something sane.

AI could be the death of us or it could eventually lead to more of a Star Trek future, which is more egalitarian and post-capitalist existence. Or something in-between.

AI aint going to lead to more egalitarian outcomes. All its going to do is make us lose more jobs. I think we should consider outlawing AI art that steals from others.

KevinKohler · May 24, 2025

Dans La Lune said:
I'm in the arts field and it's coming for the artists at full speed. I like the idea of a society that engages in intellectual and artistic pursuits over labor, but that may not be the case with AI. In fact, I think certain forms of labor might be AI-resistant compared to the arts.

It will de-monitize art.

Which will possibly save.

Art for arts sake, not because filthy rich people need an investment vehicle.

bomberfox · May 24, 2025

KevinKohler said:
It will de-monitize art.

Which will possibly save.

Art for arts sake, not because filthy rich people need an investment vehicle.

Artists still need to eat… wow this is a seriously ignorant take.

KevinKohler · May 25, 2025

bomberfox said:
Artists still need to eat… wow this is a seriously ignorant take.

So do ditch diggers, coal miners, and cab drivers.

Everyone is going to have to learn new ways to earn a living.

In the case of Art, as in, the art itself, not so much "artists", it will not longer exist for the purpose of making money,IE, wedding photography, graphic design/web design, illustration, etc. Artists will instead pursue their art for no better reason than because they want, rather than because they need to to eat.

Consider...before film, the primary role of artists, specifically painters, was to document history. Portraits, historic scenes, marriages, etc. When film hit the scene, that's when painting expanded into impressionism, abstract, etc. Monet, Manet, Degas, Renoir. Their best work was done for themselves, non commissioned, because it's what they wanted to do. Very possible none of their best work would have been done if not for the fact that the world no longer needed them for documentary purposes...

How to make a living when "essential" work is all being done "for free" for those that need it done is a problem....but it's only a problem when viewed through the lenses of capitalism. In any other light, it's an absolute miracle of science.

Peter · May 25, 2025

The way we live now is not the only way and I suspect that life after the collapse of capitalism will be just fine.

Lord Tammerlain · May 25, 2025

Being a pessimist, and enjoying cyberpunk novels and TV I have a general pessimistic view of the future with AI.

Only the absolute best artists will make money, only scientists with extraordinary visions will be required.

If you recall the San Fran tech companies plan to create a new city for their workers, that is the future I see, society's split by those working for high profit companies leading good lives, those who do not generally living on the margins of life

See William Gibson Neuromancer for the future I expect. Issue being Neuromancer did not have capable AI in it

Helix · May 25, 2025

It's going to be a bitch of a transitional period. Many people will be replaced by AI and will have nothing lucrative to fall back on. Also, the far right will fight any UBI efforts tooth and nail even if their base ends up desperately needing it.

bomberfox · May 25, 2025

KevinKohler said:
So do ditch diggers, coal miners, and cab drivers.

Everyone is going to have to learn new ways to earn a living.

In the case of Art, as in, the art itself, not so much "artists", it will not longer exist for the purpose of making money,IE, wedding photography, graphic design/web design, illustration, etc. Artists will instead pursue their art for no better reason than because they want, rather than because they need to to eat.

Consider...before film, the primary role of artists, specifically painters, was to document history. Portraits, historic scenes, marriages, etc. When film hit the scene, that's when painting expanded into impressionism, abstract, etc. Monet, Manet, Degas, Renoir. Their best work was done for themselves, non commissioned, because it's what they wanted to do. Very possible none of their best work would have been done if not for the fact that the world no longer needed them for documentary purposes...

How to make a living when "essential" work is all being done "for free" for those that need it done is a problem....but it's only a problem when viewed through the lenses of capitalism. In any other light, it's an absolute miracle of science.

Art is something thst humans have been doing for millenia. Lots of artists arent ****ing rich lol. AI is just draining all human creativity it steals from the web to give us a facsimile that isnt really all that great. This is fantasy land. This isnt like inventing an airplane, no its creating a vampire that steals artwork. What it is going to do is cut people out of jobs so publishers can make bank.

I dont think we can invent our way out of capitalism. The ruling class wont have it.

aociswundumho · May 25, 2025

bomberfox said:
AI aint going to lead to more egalitarian outcomes.

I agree with this part.

bomberfox said:
I think we should consider outlawing AI art that steals from others.

All artists "steal" from other artists. They just call it influence.

bomberfox · May 25, 2025

aociswundumho said:
I agree with this part.

All artists "steal" from other artists. They just call it influence.

No thats not even remotely the same. While it is true all art is somewhat derivative, this is wholly different from scraping from an artist’s collection so you can break it up and use that same artwork to create something to claim your own without putting in the work to create it. Theres a reason we dont allow ai art to be copyrighted.

The AI isnt learning techniques, all it is doing is stealing from artists to break down then reassemble according to keywords. This is why AI art cant create a wine glass filled to the brim. It doesnt know technique, it derives really no inspiration, and it doesnt know artistic technique. Otherwise you wouldnt get the eerily discombobulated slop that remakes movies into lower quality versions of themselves.

aociswundumho · May 25, 2025

bomberfox said:
No thats not even remotely the same. While it is true all art is somewhat derivative,

Somewhat? They copy each other all the time. From dylan lifting melodies from traditional folk tunes to zeppelin “borrowing” entire blues riffs, the history of art is a history of creative theft dressed up as inspiration. When Picasso himself said, “Good artists copy, great artists steal,” and he wasn’t just being cheeky, he was acknowledging a truth baked into the creative process.

bomberfox said:
this is wholly different from scraping from an artist’s collection so you can break it up and use that same artwork to create something to claim your own without putting in the work to create it.

Again, all artists do that, most of the time subconsciously.

bomberfox said:
Theres a reason we dont allow ai art to be copyrighted.

Copyright shouldn't exist in the first place.

bomberfox said:
This is why AI art cant create a wine glass filled to the brim.

It did it for me:

KevinKohler · May 25, 2025

aociswundumho said:
Somewhat? They copy each other all the time. From dylan lifting melodies from traditional folk tunes to zeppelin “borrowing” entire blues riffs, the history of art is a history of creative theft dressed up as inspiration. When Picasso himself said, “Good artists copy, great artists steal,” and he wasn’t just being cheeky, he was acknowledging a truth baked into the creative process.

Again, all artists do that, most of the time subconsciously.

Copyright shouldn't exist in the first place.

It did it for me:

View attachment 67571557

That looks more like Guinness than any wine I know....but then, I'm in Dublin the next 2 days, so....got Guinness on the brain.

And in the belly.

aociswundumho · May 25, 2025

KevinKohler said:
That looks more like Guinness than any wine I know....but then, I'm in Dublin the next 2 days, so....got Guinness on the brain.

And in the belly.

I heard that Guinness in Ireland tastes way better than what we get in America. Did you find that to be true?

KevinKohler · May 25, 2025

aociswundumho said:
I heard that Guinness in Ireland tastes way better than what we get in America. Did you find that to be true?

Honestly, no.

Guinness on draft at a good bar is just as good as here. In the bottle or can, though? Absolutely. Way better out of the keg. I think it all comes down to the quality of the bar.

I'm touring Guinness tomorrow. The place is huge, must take up half of Dublin. Its like Wonkas chocolate factory, lol.

bomberfox · May 26, 2025

aociswundumho said:
Somewhat? They copy each other all the time. From dylan lifting melodies from traditional folk tunes to zeppelin “borrowing” entire blues riffs, the history of art is a history of creative theft dressed up as inspiration. When Picasso himself said, “Good artists copy, great artists steal,” and he wasn’t just being cheeky, he was acknowledging a truth baked into the creative process.

Again, all artists do that, most of the time subconsciously.

Copyright shouldn't exist in the first place.

It did it for me:

View attachment 67571557

No they dont copy each other all the time otherwise there would be copyright breaches all the time. Like i get you dont give a shit if artists need to eat but AI is a ****ing disaster that sucks everything from people who do hard work so lazy assholes can claim they are artists by using an algorithm. Thats not art. Actually study art history before running your damn mouth.

Picasso never said that and great artists dont actually say that. Im part of a community that is full of artists. They definitely DO NOT say that.

Great artists copy, bad artists steal

"Good artists copy, great artists steal" is an overrated creativity blurb "Good artists copy, great artists steal" is one of the most popular and provocative quotes about creativity. The reason.

www.linkedin.com

medi · May 26, 2025

Interesting to see this thread, because during my morning check of NHK I stopped and read/thought about this article.

I was sort of thinking that is another step away from that human-to-human contact that seems to be slowly slipping away due to many reasons related to this high tech world we are getting into.

So first the normal link in Japanese:

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

【NHK】生成AIの技術が進化する中、企業の間では新人の研修や社員の評価といった分野でもAIを活用する動きが広がってきています。

www3.nhk.or.jp

Now a lazy style of just grabbing a bit of the Google return on translating:

More and more companies are using generative AI for new employee training, personnel evaluation, and other human resource development

May 26, 2025 6:37am

As generative AI technology evolves, companies are increasingly using AI in areas such as training new employees and evaluating employees.

And I have tried this before and it worked; the link will display in Japanese, I think I remember, BUT when you click on it you will see the translated text. At least I think I remember it worked that way before.

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

【NHK】生成AIの技術が進化する中、企業の間では新人の研修や社員の評価といった分野でもAIを活用する動きが広がってきています。

www3-nhk-or-jp.translate.goog

EDIT: Yes, it worked. Just have to wait for a bit for the browser to figure out what's going on.

aociswundumho · May 26, 2025

bomberfox said:
No they dont copy each other all the time otherwise there would be copyright breaches all the time. Like i get you dont give a shit if artists need to eat but AI is a ****ing disaster that sucks everything from people who do hard work so lazy assholes can claim they are artists by using an algorithm. Thats not art. Actually study art history before running your damn mouth.

I suspect your anger comes from the realization that you've never had an original idea in your entire life.

bomberfox said:
Picasso never said that and great artists dont actually say that. Im part of a community that is full of artists. They definitely DO NOT say that.

Actually, they do:

Quote Origin: Good Artists Copy; Great Artists Steal – Quote Investigator®

quoteinvestigator.com

bomberfox · May 26, 2025

medi said:
Interesting to see this thread, because during my morning check of NHK I stopped and read/thought about this article.

I was sort of thinking that is another step away from that human-to-human contact that seems to be slowly slipping away due to many reasons related to this high tech world we are getting into.

So first the normal link in Japanese:

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

【NHK】生成AIの技術が進化する中、企業の間では新人の研修や社員の評価といった分野でもAIを活用する動きが広がってきています。

www3.nhk.or.jp

Now a lazy style of just grabbing a bit of the Google return on translating:

And I have tried this before and it worked; the link will display in Japanese, I think I remember, BUT when you click on it you will see the translated text. At least I think I remember it worked that way before.

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

【NHK】生成AIの技術が進化する中、企業の間では新人の研修や社員の評価といった分野でもAIを活用する動きが広がってきています。

www3-nhk-or-jp.translate.goog

If only i had the time to study kanji i could certainly translate for you but yeah this is really taking away our human to human contact.

bomberfox · May 26, 2025

aociswundumho said:
I suspect your anger comes from the realization that you've never had an original idea in your entire life.

Actually, they do:

Quote Origin: Good Artists Copy; Great Artists Steal – Quote Investigator®

quoteinvestigator.com

My anger comes from listening to actual artists

And no picasso still never said that.

NatMorton · Jun 22, 2025

Dans La Lune said:
I pride myself on being able to see patterns and anticipate likely outcomes. I don't see how capitalism survives in a future with AI. People make the mistake of applying AI to our current materialistic nature. That AI will be making clothing, widgets, toys, games, entertainment. I honestly see a lot of that either going away or changing on a scale that makes their production far less susceptible to traditional capitalism, cheap human labor, and extraction. That doesn't mean what replaces it will be better, but it will definitely be different. In the end, we only need food, water, and shelter to survive. The rest are luxuries and preoccupations. Excluding social interactions, of course.

Capitalism as we know it doesn't exist in a society where someone's value isn't reduced to labor and extracted as profit by another human. Money is merely a means to facilitate the exchange of services and resources. The ability for humans to leverage resources over other humans is the foundation of power throughout human history. What does that look like in an automated / AI-ified society? I think more important questions will arise as it relates to the human condition. Like how do we occupy our time, what level human labor is actually required, what do our critical thinking skills look like when AI has all the answers... culture is a reflection of our circumstances and experiences. Culture will be completely alien to our current standards in the coming decades, assuming we survive and can transition to something sane.

AI could be the death of us or it could eventually lead to more of a Star Trek future, which is more egalitarian and post-capitalist existence. Or something in-between.

Pride goeth before a fall.

Capitalism will survive because it is compatible with freedom. Marxist Socialism fails for precisely the opposite reason.

Live long, and prosper.

Lord Tammerlain · Jun 22, 2025

NatMorton said:
Pride goeth before a fall.

Capitalism will survive because it is compatible with freedom. Marxist Socialism fails for precisely the opposite reason.

Live long, and prosper.

Capitalism is not about freedom.

Slavery existed under Capitalism did it not,

Under capitalism, every thing and everyone but one person could be owned by someone. Who could do whatever they want to every one and thing they own

Money, Power, Capitalism in an AI Future

Dans La Lune

Do you read Sutter Cane?

dmpi

Peter

Dans La Lune

Do you read Sutter Cane?

bomberfox

KevinKohler

bomberfox

KevinKohler

Peter

Lord Tammerlain

Helix

bomberfox

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig

bomberfox

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig

KevinKohler

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig

KevinKohler

bomberfox

Great artists copy, bad artists steal

medi

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig

Quote Origin: Good Artists Copy; Great Artists Steal – Quote Investigator®

bomberfox

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

生成AI 新人研修や人事評価など人材育成にも活用の企業広がる | NHK

bomberfox

Quote Origin: Good Artists Copy; Great Artists Steal – Quote Investigator®

NatMorton

Lord Tammerlain

Money, Power, Capitalism in an AI Future

Do you read Sutter Cane?

Do you read Sutter Cane?

Capitalist Pig

Capitalist Pig

Capitalist Pig

Capitalist Pig

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