The Barbarian
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2011
- Messages
- 1,265
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- Political Leaning
- Conservative
Busted up doesn't mean gone. They took a beating. They were busted up. Teacher jobs have been lost.
You might want to read my answer to Buck. I would expect a plan not to leave it up to districts to decide, as that is not a plan but passing the buck. If it leaves us with any district cutting teachers and thus increasing class size, we have failed to have a proper plan.
were they lost ... . or given up to continue the assault on Walker .. after all if no teachers would have lost their jobs .. how could this continue to be a big issue .
You might want to read my answer to Buck. I would expect a plan not to leave it up to districts to decide, as that is not a plan but passing the buck. If it leaves us with any district cutting teachers and thus increasing class size, we have failed to have a proper plan.
So in your opinion . When spending cuts are involved .. it's a bad plan to allow the districts … to decide how they should handle those cuts .. Who would know better the needs .. of a particular school .. that district .. or the government that could be located 100s of miles away ???
IMO it was the right thing to do to have the districts handle the cuts .. they are more involved in their community and should know their needs better.
What to me it shows .. is that some districts choose to abide by the cuts .. and do the best they could with them .. while others used it as a political tool .. to get back at Walker .. by disregarding the kids and teachers and going straight to lay offs. Of course in your opinion .. it's better to lay teacher off then look at all other options .. to make sure that you and other libs can continue the assault on Walker
Thank you for the post on Detroit's handling of the cuts .. It seems that they managed their budget cuts with laying off teachers … perhaps it would have been wise of Milwaukee to do something similar ..or even call Detroit for help with their budgeting before going to lay offs of teachers .. but then again .. if the budget cuts went without lay offs .. it would be harder to continue the bashing of Walker which is your and other liberals primary concern
The individual School districts are responsible for the budgeting of the schools. The governor can not (and I am glad for it) make those decisions. The governor can only provide money to school districts to do what they want with it.
In this case, some districts decided they wanted to give it to unions/teachers and the unions decided they wouldn't make any concessions for the benefit of all. In other cases, the districts(rightly) decided to use the new tools made available from the governor (teacher contribute to pensions, moving away from the vastly overpriced WEA insurance, etc).
I know why some districts decided to do what they did. Now, students will be disadvantaged due to their decisions (for two years in the case of milwaukee).
Boo Radley;1059623670]It's a bad plan to cut teachers and increase class size. We facing cuts here, and we argued that it was important to get feedback, to involve everyone in the decisions, but that those charged with making sure the mission was met, you know, making sure students got the best possible education, had to have final say.
Here you seem to be arguing that if a district wants to harm children, good for them. I say, no, any plan at budget cuts must assure that children are not the ones paying the price.
Now, a hammer tends to see everythign as a nail, so a political partisan tends to see everything as policial, so it doesn't surprise me that you see this as a political tool to get back at Walker. You overlook that Walker did not present a play that would assure teachers stayed working. I seriously doubt those who got pink slips said please fire me.
Yes, I personally prefer Detroit's choice over Milwaukee's. Still, I suspect we could have done a better job in both places.
How were they lost? Please, explain.
As long as that is true, the effort will never be well managed, it will be ad hoc, and children will face the brunt of it in some areas. the complant has been that the top needs to be cut, but when you do it this way, the likelihood is slim that the cuts will occur in the right places.
In what way Boo?I actually believe this is a misinterpretation on your part.
What part do you think I have wrong? Do you disagree that the central organizing principal of Marxism is in fact, centrally organizing society? Isn't the point to increase the size of government, to have a dictatorship of the proletariat to lead the unwashed masses to their utopia?And anyone who uses the term Marxist to describe Obama is so far in delusional land that one has to question whether rational discussion is even possible.
Thanks for trying.However, I try.
First off, the wealthy are not being deprived of their wealth. They are doing fine. Paying a few more percentage points of taxes is not depriving them of their wealth. It is not only dishonest to say it is, but more than a little silly.
What we have is a budget problem all around that will require both spending cuts and tax increases.
This is not marxist, or socialist, or any other ism. This is partical problem solving.
Now, I suggest you step back from your excessive ideological delusion and try to see things more clearly. No one of any siginficance or seriousness is threatening what you claim.
Of course you do. Stevie Wonder could see that coming. A far right wing plan to weaken and possible destroy the working class in America gets support from far right extremists who share those far right goals.
(CNN) -- In a budget-cutting move likely to be echoed around the country, Milwaukee Public Schools said Wednesday it will lay off 519 staff members -- including 354 teachers -- because of $84 million in state cuts and the system's efforts to control costs.
Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers - CNN.com
Cuts have consequences.
It is awesome in its simplicity and power. Dot that I would ever try to dissuade you from using the phrase but the leisure class, meaning union members and union leaders, is far more apt than working class. Since I think the class-full society is a useful Marxist tool I prefer to think of the two groups as the productive, meaning the wealth producers, the taxpayers, and the unproductive, meaning the wealth consumers, the public sector government workers, the union leaders and members.
I would expect a plan not to leave it up to districts to decide, as that is not a plan but passing the buck.
The Kaukauna School District, in the Fox River Valley of Wisconsin near Appleton, has about 4,200 students and about 400 employees. It has struggled in recent times and this year faced a deficit of $400,000. But after the law went into effect, at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday, school officials put in place new policies they estimate will turn that $400,000 deficit into a $1.5 million surplus. And it's all because of the very provisions that union leaders predicted would be disastrous.
The changes mean Kaukauna can reduce the size of its classes -- from 31 students to 26 students in high school and from 26 students to 23 students in elementary school. In addition, there will be more teacher time for one-on-one sessions with troubled students. Those changes would not have been possible without the much-maligned changes in collective bargaining.
Granted. Wealth is taken from the wealth producers. The state takes a very large amount. Much of that wealth is then given to public sector union members. Government workers. And they in turn pay some in taxes. But they do not create wealth. They do not create things of value. They consume wealth.The public sector worker pays taxes also.
I personally prefer Detroit's choice over Milwaukee's.
(CNN) -- In a budget-cutting move likely to be echoed around the country, Milwaukee Public Schools said Wednesday it will lay off 519 staff members -- including 354 teachers -- because of $84 million in state cuts and the system's efforts to control costs.
Milwaukee schools to lay off 354 teachers - CNN.com
Cuts have consequences.
From what I'm hearing from the GOP these days, education is way over rated. Of what benefit is having smart children? How could that possibly help us in the future?
Of what benefit is having smart children? How could that possibly help us in the future?
really ?? I've heard of no such things .. do you have links to back up your nonsense .. or are you just giving us more of your dribble ?
In what way Boo?
What part do you think I have wrong? Do you disagree that the central organizing principal of Marxism is in fact, centrally organizing society? Isn't the point to increase the size of government, to have a dictatorship of the proletariat to lead the unwashed masses to their utopia?
So is your plan to take wealth from them without depriving the of it? That is one fine trick. How do you propose to take that wealth which someone has created without actually taking it? If they are not deprived of that which is taken from them then what word or phrase should we use to describe it?
You have provided one solution, your solution, without first defining what the problem is. If the problem is spending 5 billion dollars more than the state has another way to view the problem is that the state is spending too much. It must cut its spending to match or be lower than the revenue it expects to collect. If the desire is to increase the revenues to the state then another option is to review the myriad rules and regulations that hamper business. By making business easier to conduct the economic activity will increase withing the state thus increasing revenues collected.
It lacks practicality to the degree that the problem itself was not identified and agreed upon before moving to one of many possible solutions. It is Marxist or socialist or statist because your preferred solution, perhaps you only solution is always the same. Tax the rich and spend, spend spend on more government.
Thank you for your suggestion. However, I am fine. And I stand by my assessment.
Did you miss the OP??? Are under the impression that a higher student to teacher ratio improves education?
Nonsense. I have voted local tickets for some thirty years now, and never once have I seen any initiative on any ballot that reads in terms of bloating the administration of a school system with $100K plus a year jobs, and golden parachute retirements.
These positions are ones created for teachers that move up the ranks toward retirement by connected union hacks that are draining our municipalities.
j-mac
So in your opinion . When spending cuts are involved .. it's a bad plan to allow the districts … to decide how they should handle those cuts .. Who would know better the needs .. of a particular school .. that district .. or the government that could be located 100s of miles away ???
Have you ever read the Communist Manefesto? Me thinks not, otherwise you'd never make these foolish statements.
j-mac
Heck, why not just graduate these kids at the 8th grade, and do away with high school all together....Everyone knows that this is what collages are for....heh, heh....
j-mac
you want to leave the CUTS up to the cuomos and moonbeams of this milieu?
LOL!
you don't know what you're arguing about
at the DISTRICT level wisconsin is witnessing MIRACLES:
link above
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