Stu Ghatze
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Stu Ghatze said:Thats right, ..it is stupid, & dangerous! First of all, ..what is remotely similiar to real torture, & whom shall define it?
So...John McCain wants an amendment outlawing all military personel from ever using "whatever" is deemed to be torture!
Sure, ..why not show our hands to brainwashed, hardcore terrorists in letting them know "upfront"...Imagine having Mohammed Atta in custody BEFORE 9/11 happened;.."why, we cannot use any harsh interrogation methods so...you really do not have to co-operate because we ourselves can be prosecuted, ..& by golly you even can have access to our american courts" to criminalize our behavior"????
WTF.... I'm so sick of that g-damn John McCAin who should, & DOES KNOW better.
McCain knows full well what "REAL" torture is as a former Viet-nam prisoner, & in his heart he knows that America does not employ real torture that is even commensurate with that definition.
Most americans have no problem with terrorists being humiliated, being threatened, sent to their cell without supper, ..or even having them slapped around "some" to extract pertinent information that could save the lives of American soldiers, ..& any innocent persons.
Shall we leave it all up to a liberal judge to prosecute a member of our military because of his interpretation of the word "torture".....I think not!
Those individual soldiers who did abuse terror prisoners were "successfully" prosecuted proving that the checks & balances in the military DO work.
The LAST thing we need is some liberal judge ideologue who thinks that terrorists are just common street criminal who have, & deserve any constitutional rights so they can pursue their rights of happiness, ..which of course is to export terror all over the world in the name of islam!
Terrorists who do not openly represent any legal government, respect no laws of military engagement, make no distinction in whom they MURDER, & are indoctrinated on the fine art of murder, assassination, & respect no laws of any g-damn decency.
Shall we as a nation "disqualify" our ability to extract future terror acts, because our military "might" be engaging in "torture" which is loosely defined by liberal do gooders, & the liberal media, ..& by McCAin posing as a moderate conservative in conflict with the Bush administration so he can be immortalized as at least 1-good republican still in good standing by his liberal contemporaries that reside in the senate, ..& all the nicities, & priveleges that are bestowed upon such by the mainstream media as "acceptable" alternatives to the republican party!
McCain ought to be ashamed of himself, as some other republicans who want to be ''accepted" by their fellow liberal democrat senators!
For chrise sakes...nobody is advocating "real" torture upon terrorists, & to tie & hamstring our military, & deny them FUTURE options to extract necessary information from terror murderer's that could prevent a catastrophic terror act is absolutely insane, & irresponsible!
This is NOT the first time John McCain has "prostituted" himself for the sake of himself as being seen as an acceptable alternative for some democratic voters.
MY only wish is , ...God forbid, "IF" a major terror act is established to happen in the future against America, or Americans.....is that John McCain, & his CHUMMY fellow liberal democrats are WELL REMEMBERED for giving, & guaranteeing the terror enemy ALL that is needed for them to accomplish its goal of successful terror!
God help such people see themselves as the dangerous, stupid..& suicidal behavior as these people really are in their quest for so called, "rights" for a terror enemy that never sleeps, or ever holds any notion of peace for the rest of humanity! :roll:
In truth I will say....John McCain could not make a "pimple" on a presidents as.s, ..as he is much more "disingenuine", ..than ever the republican he has ever claimed to be!
His past actions, ..& present actions shall NOT be forgotten!
FinnMacCool said:This is why I love McCain. Any Republican who can **** of Stu is someone who I would vote for in a heart beat. Okay sure he doesn't have the same views as me but at least he is more honest then the next politician and he isn't always constantly praising Bush etc.
Feel free to read the entire text. A few points of my own: Sen. McCain knows better than nearly any other American alive today what it means to be tortured. He also knows the things he said to end the abuse. He has to know from being on the recieving end just how useless the entire practice is.Mr. President, to fight terrorism we need intelligence. That much is obvious. What should also be obvious is that the intelligence we collect must be reliable and acquired humanely, under clear standards understood by all our fighting men and women. To do differently would not only offend our values as Americans, but undermine our war effort, because abuse of prisoners harms – not helps – us in the war on terror. First, subjecting prisoners to abuse leads to bad intelligence, because under torture a detainee will tell his interrogator anything to make the pain stop. Second, mistreatment of our prisoners endangers U.S. troops who might be captured by the enemy – if not in this war, then in the next. And third, prisoner abuses exact on us a terrible toll in the war of ideas, because inevitably these abuses become public. When they do, the cruel actions of a few darken the reputation of our country in the eyes of millions. American values should win against all others in any war of ideas, and we can’t let prisoner abuse tarnish our image...
So the amendment I am offering simply codifies what is current policy and reaffirms what was assumed to be existing law for years. In light of the administration’s stated commitment, it should require no change in our current interrogation and detention practices. What it would do is restore clarity on a simple and fundamental question: Does America treat people inhumanely? My answer is no, and from all I’ve seen, America’s answer has always been no.
Mr. President, let me just close by noting that I hold no brief for the prisoners. I do hold a brief for the reputation of the United States of America. We are Americans, and we hold ourselves to humane standards of treatment of people no matter how evil or terrible they may be. To do otherwise undermines our security, but it also undermines our greatness as a nation. We are not simply any other country. We stand for something more in the world – a moral mission, one of freedom and democracy and human rights at home and abroad. We are better than these terrorists, and we will we win. The enemy we fight has no respect for human life or human rights. They don’t deserve our sympathy. But this isn’t about who they are. This is about who we are. These are the values that distinguish us from our enemies.
www.theonion.com said:Friday, November 11, 2005
Bush To Veto Torture Ban?
The Senate recently approved a ban on torture with a 90-9 vote, but the White House is threatening to veto the bill. What do you think?
Anna Lyndon,
Chemical Engineer
"I never know when the White House is kidding anymore."
Joseph Teague,
Adjustment Clerk
"Unless these enemies of the United States are captured, made really angry and resentful through embarrassing torture, then released, we will never stop terrorism."
Ian Bricke,
Systems Analyst
"Perhaps they could do what they always do and just torture people anyway, then let the pictures tell the success story."
Old and wise said:If our Government sanctions torture, then we have no complaint when others torture us.
Leaving the short and humorous quips aside, how about answering his question. What is torture and what is aggressive interrogation? Where is the line? Who defines it?Old and wise said:Are you on the War Department's payroll?
HOW ABOUT THE UNITED STATES CODE??????Stu Ghatze said:For the LAST time, ..WHO WANTS TO DEFINE WHAT REAL TORTURE IS????
KCConservative said:Leaving the short and humorous quips aside, how about answering his question. What is torture and what is aggressive interrogation? Where is the line? Who defines it?
Sure but the U.S. does not abide by either of these.Napoleon's Nightingale said:You need to read the Geneva Convention and the UN Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. Both of which the U.S. agreed to.
Billo_Really said:Stu Gahtze, your the man! You just keep going the way you are. You're the best thing that has happened for the Democratic Party in years. Please don't change until after 2008. Bad neo, bad neo!
Say it with me......
http://www.newshounds.us/2005/11/18/john_mccain_vs_rupert_murdoch.phpJohn McCain Vs. Rupert Murdoch
Yesterday (11/17) The New York Post, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, published an op-ed piece written by Senator John McCain defending the War in Iraq, and why he voted "no" on the two amendments this week in regards to troop withdrawal, setting a timeline to bring them home, and having the President give Congress regular updates on the war.
But now McCain is livid with the Post. Why? Because he gave them the leniency to write the title of the article and they chose the sensational, yet inaccurate title, "Aiding and Abetting", to which Senator McCain responded on Hardball with Chris Matthews: "I think it's outrageous."
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