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McCain: Obama 'directly responsible' for Orlando massacre

You're right, President Bush 2's plan to "bring democracy" to Iraq was flawed in its very inception. It is unfortunate that President Obama had his hands tied by President Bush 2's terrible plan.

Tied in what way? His hands have been tied by his islamofilia.
 
Tied in what way? His hands have been tied by his islamofilia.

President Bush 2 committed the United States to withdraw forces on a negotiated timeline. President Obama's sole fault here is following through on that commitment.
 
President Bush 2 committed the United States to withdraw forces on a negotiated timeline. President Obama's sole fault here is following through on that commitment.

His fault is to side with Islam and refuse to finish ISIS. If you can't see that he has done as little as possible, then you aren't watching. While I don't blame him as the cause of ISIS I do blame him for his unwillingness to finish ISIS.
 
His fault is to side with Islam and refuse to finish ISIS. If you can't see that he has done as little as possible, then you aren't watching. While I don't blame him as the cause of ISIS I do blame him for his unwillingness to finish ISIS.

Oh man if only he'd wave that magic wand to "finish ISIS."
 
You're right, President Bush 2's plan to "bring democracy" to Iraq was flawed in its very inception. It is unfortunate that President Obama had his hands tied by President Bush 2's terrible plan.

President Bush 2 committed the United States to withdraw forces on a negotiated timeline. President Obama's sole fault here is following through on that commitment.

False. The "timeline" went over two years into BHO's term in order to give him the freedom to negotiate his own agreement. Every planner in DoD operated on the assumption that would happen, and every one was surprised when BHO decided to walk away.
 
Without Americans the Iraqi army became dysfunctional. It required our return to bring them back. Better if we had never left.
You missed the point about the Long War. It was coming no matter what we did.

1. If we forced Iraq to allow our troops to remain there, such would only have enabled the terrorists to recruit more to attack our troops - "See? The Americans promised they'd leave, we told them to leave, and now they're still occupying our nation!" And more of our troops would die...and for what? You've got to allow people to make up their OWN minds what they want...and that includes the peoples of other nations. It's sorta hard to say "we believe in freedom" when at the very literal point of a rifle, we don't allow those of other nations to make up their own minds what they want.

2. C'mon, Jack - terrorism (and mostly worse terrorism than what we see today) has been around since long before you and I were born. The only reason why we're so focused on terrorism today is because we're not in the middle of any truly major war (or Cold War) with any non-Muslim nation. There's no real war to report on, so all the reporting's on "Look how terrible the terrorism is!" never mind that now, right now is the freest, most peaceful time (relative to population) in all of recorded human history. The "war against terrorism" is every bit as useless as the "war on drugs" or the "war on poverty". We're spending tens of billions every year to stop a relative very few from spending a few thousands of dollars for guns and using those to kill innocent people...and the more we splash their names on the headlines, the more want to see their names in headlines, too.
 

There would have been no "forcing." The tools were present to lead to an Iraqi invitation to remain.
As for terrorism, no, it's in fact a great deal worse than it was. Bernard Lewis got it right as far back as 1992 in his famous Atlantic Monthly​ article "The Roots of Muslim Rage."
 
There would have been no "forcing." The tools were present to lead to an Iraqi invitation to remain.

That, sir, is a matter of partisan opinion, especially given that Obama did try to get them to allow our troops to stay. But I get it - since you're never, ever going to give Obama credit for anything, you must ensure that you remain convinced that whatever he did do, it wasn't and could never have been enough, that if only he'd just done more, they would have allowed our troops to stay.

As for terrorism, no, it's in fact a great deal worse than it was. Bernard Lewis got it right as far back as 1992 in his famous Atlantic Monthly​ article "The Roots of Muslim Rage."

No, it's not. All terrorism is, is nothing more than asymmetric warfare...as it is in any instance where one side is so much weaker than the other side.
 
I do not post what I do not know.

Like when you posted that the Great Recession was no big deal?

Courage, Jack, isn't just doing what one must do in times of great fear. Courage is also having the intestinal fortitude to LOOK for the answers that you don't know, and to accept the answers that you find even when they are 180-out from what you originally believed.

Right now, you might not know the answer to what I asked you...but you DO have the means and the opportunity to find the answer...and relatively quickly.
 
I do not post what I do not know.

That may be, but you also do post what you cannot possibly know, for example, that President Obama did not arm a rebel group because he lacked courage.
 

As I already posted, BHO stunned our own DoD by his approach to the Iraqis. As for terrorism, your own link makes my point.
 

You have missed the point. I have first hand knowledge of our situation and our opportunity in Syria in early 2012. Grown men cried when BHO failed to step up.
 
You have missed the point. I have first hand knowledge of our situation and our opportunity in Syria in early 2012. Grown men cried when BHO failed to step up.

"Failed to step up"? The Iraqis refused our SOFA, refused to grant our troops immunity from Iraqi prosecution...which is a requirement for ALL our bases worldwide:

The agreement failed over a demand that American troops be given immunity from prosecution by Iraqis, a very touchy political issue within the Iraqi Parliament. Some experts said Iraqi leaders may not have been willing to take great political risk with their citizens in exchange for a relatively small American force.

But no immunity meant no sizable residual troop presence.

"When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible," al-Maliki said in an October 2011 news conference. "The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started."

Three years later, as the Islamic State advanced in the country and shocked the world, a CNN reporter asked Obama if he regretted the decision not to leave a residual force in Iraq. Obama said, "Keep in mind, that wasn't a decision made by me. That was a decision made by the Iraqi government."


No offense, Jack, but when it comes to this subject, I'll take the Iraqi president's word over yours any day.
 

Two separate questions: Iraq in 2011, Syria in 2012. My post was about Syria in 2012 and had nothing to do with Iraq.
 
As I already posted, BHO stunned our own DoD by his approach to the Iraqis. As for terrorism, your own link makes my point.

And as I posted elsewhere too, the Iraqi president himself said the reason why Iraq would not allow our forces to stay was because they would not allow American troops to have immunity from Iraqi prosecution...and you know very well that such is a standard part of all SOFA's worldwide.

And concerning my link, no, it doesn't "make your point". It shows that terrorism's been around a long, long time...and the more access that low-level terrorists have to weapons or things that can be used as weapons, the more destruction they'll cause.
 
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